(no subject)

[swatkat]

♥ The Road to Eldorado.

ETA: Aww. The Lion King.

And if he falls in love tonight
It can be assumed
His carefree days with us are history
In short, our pal is doomed.

Aww.


*

"I don't read slash but I want to read fanfic with UST in it"

Am I the only person who finds this statement slightly puzzling? So - it's not slash if it's just UST, with House and Wilson pining away manfully but not actually doing something? I love UST as much as the next person (hence my undying love for House/Cuddy), especially if it's well-done in fanfic, but I don't get the 'I do want m/m shipfic but only it's carefully concealed, none of your icky slashfic for me'. Because UST is not genfic. UST in fanfic implies some kind of definite ship bias, which genfics do not have (what we read into them is a different issue altogether). There is a *huge* readership for House/Wilson 'friendship' fic, a *lot* of which is nothing but of this UST-but-not-slash genre, and I don't understand. I don't understand at all.

Comments

[zulu]

Dude, don't even get me started. It's as if slash can't be G or PG rated. Um, guys? If the boys are in a relationship, then it's slash: see, see this little oblique bit of punctuation between their names, House/Wilson, see that? That's what that means. They're in lurve or lust or crazy co-dependent longing, and it is GAY, yes, they are acting in some sense like HOMOSEXUALS, they are a little further down the Kinsey spectrum than perhaps you'd like, and that means THEY MIGHT KISS OR GROPE OR HAVE FUNCTIONING PENISES, my God, how do you live in this world? UST on its way to RST I love muchly, even if it never makes it there, but all unresolved all the time? Eeeeuggghrr. And preslash: I hate that term for exactly the same reason. Just 'cause they haven't kissed doesn't mean it's pre anything. LURVE! LUST! ET CETERA! It's slash. Grr.

Ooops, looks like you got me started.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Ahhhhh yes. Denial. What a bizarre thing.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

It's as if slash can't be G or PG rated.

Yes, exactly. Or did someone redefine 'slash' as 'NC-17 only' and forgot to tell me? I love UST, I love pining (God, I love pining), but *acknowledge* it - it's *slash*. Frankly, it feels a bit...prudish to me, harsh as that may sound.

And you know what I hate MOST about the label 'preslash'? Is that a lot of it is GEN, pure and simple, and WHY the need to label it 'slash' if it's GEN? It's okay to write genfic! Slash doesn't make your fic cool and readworthy!

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Denial is the right word. Very often I go to the TWOP boards and watch people rave about how 'strong' the House and Wilson 'friendship' is in a particular story, and *headdesk*. Then the same people say they don't read slash, no they don't, and I *headdesk* some more.

[roga.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add to what you and queenzulu said, except an added frustrated GRRRRRRR.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

Some of those people, I swear. This is why I read recs by people I trust, and not all of the people on that board.

I also love the "I am too lazy to look: tell me every x/y fic you've ever read!" people.

Gen is fun! But for sure not full of UST all the time. Only some of the time. If it weren't for Smut Tuesday I think I'd write more gen, but I ought to keep that up for at least a year. After August perhaps I can quit.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

Dude, slash so makes your fic cool and readworthy! Don't you know gay is the new black?

Personally, I'm not reading anything anymore unless it's full of sweaty mansex! None of this gen tripe for me!

[orange-crushed.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's just a willful misunderstanding on their part- that slash equals porn. No, porn equals porn, people. Slash could be about two guys buying bread together at the supermarket, and often is. I know when I write slash it is always only: "I like this book." "I, too- liked that book." Meaningful glance.

Preslash is a silly term. Why no "prehetsex" or "preVoldemort" ? Preadventure, prehumor (well, lots of those, for sure, on them internets) and of course "prediagnosis."

[ms-artisan.livejournal.com]

"I don't read slash but I want to read fanfic with UST in it"

What the hell do they think the 'S' in UST stands for? It's a simple formula, really, not at all hard to understand. m+m+sexual=slash. The end.

I don't understand. I don't understand at all.

Don't even try. Your brain will burst.

[delle.livejournal.com]

I agree with you and everyone else. Slash != porn.

"Preslash" brings all kinds of pornographic thoughts to my head. Look, people (not y'all...), if there's a relationship - even if it goes no further than *meaningful glances* - and the characters are the same sex, it's slash. It's a shipper story if it's about their relationship; graphic sex not required.

It's gen if the relationship isn't the focus. You don't need to draw in readers by claiming slash where there isn't any, that's only going to piss your readers off.

How hard is that?

And WTF ::headdesk::headdesk:: with "I'm writing about their relationship with all the Deep Meanings And Serious Exchanges but it's not that icky slash." Dude, it's slash. Own it, love it.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

So...you don't believe in H/W friendship stories? See, I have to disagree that UST necessarily implies a ship bias, if ship as defined as a more intimate sexual or romantic relationship. I wouldn't call it shippy or slashy unless the UST goes somewhere, or looks like it's going to go somewhere. I reckon friendships with UST are possible; both characters find each other hot, but don't want to get into a closer relationship. That's not really shippy/slashy to me. If sex definitely happens, then yeah, that's slash. But if it just stays in the realm of UST, then lines get a little fuzzier.

[evilstorm.livejournal.com]

It's a shipper story if it's about their relationship

What, seriously? Even if their relationship is merely friendship? I think friendship with Deep Meanings And Serious Exchanges, as you put it, that doesn't have to develop into a more intimate relationship between the two men, is a very possible thing.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Oh, I do believe in House/Wilson friendship stories. Or rather, House-Wilson friendship stories, or House&Wilson friendship stories. They're genfics, like namasteyoga's. And in those fics there is deep friendship, angst, drama, being together etc. There might even be sexual tension, but that is something we read into it unless it is somehow clearly articulated or at least hinted at and left ambiguous by the author. Harry/Ron is a good example of fandom reading UST into JKR's genfic. Glinda/Elphaba OTOH is an example of UST CLEARLY ARTICULATED hinted at and left ambiguous by the author, because the story GM wants to tell is of their undying love friendship, and how it changed their lives. That's genfic with UST in it. Wicked is a Glinda-Elphaba friendship fic.

I reckon friendships with UST are possible; both characters find each other hot, but don't want to get into a closer relationship.

I too agree that friendships with UST are possible - have experienced them in RL, in fact. And stories about the friendship of two (three! H/W/C!) friends who also have a sexual dynamic that they have no intention whatsoever of exploring and are perfectly happy as they are? Is also gen, as far as I'm concerned. But the moment the author adds to the label 'House/Wilson', and then UST, it's a ship story. A slash story. The moment you talk about pining - which is acknowledging sexual tension and *wanting*, instead of acknowledging sexual tension and having no intention whatsoever of exploring it - it's slash. The lines *are* fuzzy, I absolutely agree, but in most cases than not it seems to be denial.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Uh, sorry for deleted comment. Stupidly hit enter before completing my post.

This is why I read recs by people I trust, and not all of the people on that board.

I generally click on everything, because you never know, but a lot of the stuff recommended is so... blah.

Gen is fun! But for sure not full of UST all the time. Only some of the time. If it weren't for Smut Tuesday I think I'd write more gen, but I ought to keep that up for at least a year. After August perhaps I can quit.

Personally, I think you should write both. *g*

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I demand there be 'preVoldemort' labels in HP fic. DEMAND. *dies laughing*

Yeah, it's just a willful misunderstanding on their part- that slash equals porn. No, porn equals porn, people.

Word.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Don't even try. Your brain will burst.

I know. *sigh*

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

You don't need to draw in readers by claiming slash where there isn't any, that's only going to piss your readers off.

It does piss me off. Because it seems to imply that the 'gen' label isn't good enough for your precious story, no, you must make it 'slash' somehow, as if that somehow guarantees quality.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

I will no doubt continue to write both! Porn gets the comments and gen gets the respect. Oddly enough.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

That is the way of the world, I'm afraid. Porn will always bring in more comments.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

But not the respect! Where is the love for the well-crafted gratuitous smutbunny?