As a venue for Josh Charles to leave, it's an absolute one, and I usually expect something more nuanced from the show. Given the amount of energy having gone into this deposition/voter fraud thing, I don't understand how some or all of that plotline couldn't have been used to create a more elegant way for the same goal to be achieved, instead of what went down.
Lack of elegance is right. I do expect more grace from TGW. The voter fraud storyline still has a lot going for it, because Will's role notwithstanding, Dubeck is just enough of a self-righteous crusader to find another angle. I also think it makes sense for the character - I have tried to figure out another possible storyline for his exit from LG that would ring true, and honestly nothing makes sense. Will Gardener is that guy who does not let go, of people or things. I could not imagine him moving away for too long, or dumping LG for a lucrative job, or being disbarred forever. This is the most dramatic choice and it will certainly have enough repercussions, given his centrality to the story. Still rings a little hollow to me - lacking in grace.
I don't know how I will look at Diane without a Will.
To end the voter fraud storyline with Will's incarceration might have been better. Will refusing to let anything go and standing by his principles, refusing disbarment and accepting this punishment, Dubeck glad to settle for a fall guy, Peter still in office and everyone reeling from the consequences - yeah, I could see that.
I don't know how I feel! I was actually kind of gutted, despite not really having loved Will for a couple of seasons at least - in fact for a while there I was tipping over into active dislike. There are people talking about shark jumping and shock value, and I guess it was sort of promoted that way? I didn't watch any of the promos, so I wasn't even aware that there as anything to be spoiled for, and I was definitely shocked, but man. Will is such an integral part of the show for me, such a fundamental part of its structure; he brings things to the table that none of the other characters do, so I can't imagine that the writers did this lightly. (And the Kings' letter makes it clear that they didn't.) I definitely agree with you that it would have been difficult to organically have Will leave; otoh apparently the cast has been sitting on this for a whole season, which is just incredible. So yeah, I don't know! I'm taking the wait-and-see approach. That said, I think the last few episodes were really great for Will and the most - idk, honest? way for him to go out - emphasizing the good things about him and resolving things just enough without overlooking his less than stellar qualities. But then AGAIN, I've never been that invested in Will, so I'm mostly interested in how this will play out for the other characters and glad that it's a definitive end to a ship that I've cared less and less about, while feeling an awful lot of affectionate nostalgia.
I totally understand the complaints about lack of elegance, but from my perspective, TGW is typically so...measured in its actions with the frontline characters (obviously Kalinda is another story and one I prefer not to think about tbh) that I'm kind of glad to see it take the gloves off and become ugly. And in a way I'm kind of glad at the way it pulls together the previous ugliness of Kalinda's stories; it's always been Kalinda dealing with the ugliness while the other characters are untouched by it and finally it feels they're aiming for some kind of cohesion, I guess. Because they are working with dangerous people, convicted murders, life-or-death stakes, and somehow they remain totally disconnected from it. So yeah, the wait-and-see approach basically.
Wow was this comment ever a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
I'm kind of glad at the way it pulls together the previous ugliness of Kalinda's stories; it's always been Kalinda dealing with the ugliness while the other characters are untouched by it and finally it feels they're aiming for some kind of cohesion, I guess. Because they are working with dangerous people, convicted murders, life-or-death stakes, and somehow they remain totally disconnected from it.
This, yes; I feel this is it: Finally, something hits too close to home, but it is not the expected (Lamar Bishop taking revenge for being failed; crazy Colin Sweeney plotting a sweet dark murder) but the entirely unexpected and therefore completely, gruesomely realistic.
...but as I implied below, as someone disabled by brutal accidents that forever ended the life I'd known until then, I am bound to find more truth in this than others.
Yeah, exactly. I was actually just remembering that recent episode with Bishop and his creepy lizardface lawyer and thinking, you know that was a fairly impressive bit of misdirection. Or maybe misdirection isn't the word, but I think it created this sense of foreboding that sort of dissipated in subsequent episodes - I don't remembering seeing Alicia ever genuinely afraid the way that she was when he came to her apartment and talked to her kids, and she was on tenterhooks for the rest episode. Yeah. If you'd been told to expect something like this, that's the corner you'd expect it from. I remember someone saying when the first episode aired that they thought the kid was the type to commit suicide in prison, and I think, you know, even Will was led to believe he was harmless; even though he wasn't convinced of his innocence, he - and everyone - became complacent about the stakes that they were playing for, and that was really the tragedy of it. You're never complacent with Colin Sweeney or Lemond Bishop.
I think anyone who's been surprised by some sort of catastrophic accident or sudden death (and kind of, when is death not sudden? Even when you think you're prepared for it, when it happens it's always like, today? Not next week or the week after or in a few months or just a year?) can relate, but I sympathize with the people who say that's not what they watch TV for. And especially this show, which I think has characters who are believable adults but still keeps that TV veneer of glossy unreality; they talk to about money but can afford a different suit for every day of the week and Alicia's beautiful three bedroom. I don't live in Chicago, but I have a pretty good idea of what that rent would cost in NYC for example. I definitely understand people quitting the show because it's made them unhappy, and honestly I wish more fans did do that; what mildly annoys me is people claiming the show has jumped the shark because I think this was a very considered move and it's hard to make claims of something being about to go downhill when you don't actually know how anything's going to play out. Unless you're prescient of course.
I am on the fence here, I think. Because I can understand all the arguments in favour of the lack of elegance, and death as something essentially unpredictable and grizzly. I have myself made the arguments that, in my opinion, makes this one of the most viable routes for Josh Charles' exit. At the same time, I am annoyed by the Kings' insistence (outside of the show, but sometimes tertiary canon does impact the way I see things) that this is fresh, new route they have taken - television shows deal with death and they deal with it often, last week had two different tv shows killing off two different characters. It's used for shock value and for lazy writing short-cuts. While I think TGW can indeed pull it off and deal with the consequences - I trust them with that - I also know they'll be milking the death to make us cry (and cry I will), and somehow, I dunno, it doesn't sit well with me. It's not entirely rational. Will is one fourth of the show's core emotional quartet for me.
And in a way I'm kind of glad at the way it pulls together the previous ugliness of Kalinda's stories; it's always been Kalinda dealing with the ugliness while the other characters are untouched by it and finally it feels they're aiming for some kind of cohesion, I guess. Because they are working with dangerous people, convicted murders, life-or-death stakes, and somehow they remain totally disconnected from it. So yeah, the wait-and-see approach basically.
Definitely waiting and seeing. And excited about the story possibilities for Kalinda here, though I will say this: if they bring Kalinda and Alicia back together as friends again, it cannot be at the cost of Kalinda's person ever again. I want some reciprocation on Alicia's part for once. Because at least before Kalinda had a Will, and now she doesn't.
(Gah, I'm thinking about how he brought them all together and the way for all his flights of madness he was the warm, pulsing heart that grounded them and ugh. Who will Diane scold now)
I think I liked it PRECISELY because it lacked all finesse*: death, injury, and permanent mutilation always do -- they're brutal and senseless; they hit people living lives of promise and sophistication.
And, of course, I liked it because it was The Good Wife, which is usually all about grace: under pressure, and in other situations too. I don't trust many shows, but TGW (when it is not about race, sigh, or a more mature treatment of Eli Gold) is the one that may just pull this one off.
* Speaking of words starting with F, foreshadowing I think we do get: a lot of character storylines get, if not tied up, then at least partially resolved: He and Alicia find their footing, find a sense of peace, and do smile at each other with honest appreciation and respect in their last scene. Will and Kalinda affirm their BFFness, to put it in crude terms (what they really are, deep down, is siblings in arms, of course). The only one that smarts and shocks and leaves and empty space is Diane, and for her I weep.
The only one that smarts and shocks and leaves and empty space is Diane, and for her I weep.
Because how can you make up for HER loss? It's Will and Diane, it's been Will and Diane since day one and it was supposed to be Will and Diane till Diane is old and senile like Stern became and Will's a charming silver fox, still unable to keep it in his pants and coming to Diane for advice. It was Will and Diane against the world.
I cannot get over her expression when she heard the gunshot. She knew. At that very moment, she knew.
I DON'T KNOW HOW I WILL LOOK AT DIANE WITHOUT HER WILL OKAY, WHO WILL SHE SCOLD NOW AND SHARE THE BEST PLATONIC MARRIAGE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD WITH?
(I won't lie, I'm legitimately tearing up. Screw this. I feel Whedoned. Though not as gratuitous, or poorly planned. BUT WHATEVER LET ME IRRATIONAL FOR A MINUTE.)
I had no idea this was coming, but unlike a lot of shows, I trust TGW to deal with the consequences--for there to be long-lasting consequences at all! I like that all the relationships are going to have to undergo a wrenching course change. I hope Diane gets to be prominent in this next little bit. (Although part of me worries that with Will gone, Diane can get her judgeship somehow, and then the show will be all Florrick & Agos and no cross action. I still want Diane!)
bell and I noticed that this is the first time we can remember Alicia speaking to Kalinda in...so long we couldn't remember, and even then we didn't see them actually speak! I hope they interact in the wake of this, yeesh.
No, you're right, they haven't spoken in forever and Kalinda has been in the shadows playing messenger girl. I do like the narrative possibility that Peter drove them apart and Will brings them together, like he did the first time they met. Will brought everyone together.
But if Kalinda and Alicia are friends again, I want more reciprocation from Alicia. I want Alicia to have her back - which she did, back in the days - like Kalinda always has hers. Because I don't know, her callous 'I thought she was gay' statement is something that really annoyed me - Kalinda told her explicitly that she doesn't identify as gay, but someone whose sexuality is fluid, and for Alicia to blatantly ignore that feels like such an erasure of her identity to me. Even if she wasn't there to hear it. I know that it's the 'seeing' part that caught her unawares, but still.
(I read the NPR article you linked to - I agree on the irritation with the Kings' statement that they're doing a brand!new!exciting! thing, given that tv does this often. Two shows did it this very week. But that said, this is a show that can do consequence like none other. And I cannot honestly think of any storyline that could have gotten Will away from LG except this. Diane was the one who kept leaving - Will did not. In fact, Will's always been the guy who never lets go, of people or of things.)
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2014-03-24 04:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-03-24 05:38 pm (UTC)I don't know how I will look at Diane without a Will.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-24 06:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 04:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-03-24 08:14 pm (UTC)I totally understand the complaints about lack of elegance, but from my perspective, TGW is typically so...measured in its actions with the frontline characters (obviously Kalinda is another story and one I prefer not to think about tbh) that I'm kind of glad to see it take the gloves off and become ugly. And in a way I'm kind of glad at the way it pulls together the previous ugliness of Kalinda's stories; it's always been Kalinda dealing with the ugliness while the other characters are untouched by it and finally it feels they're aiming for some kind of cohesion, I guess. Because they are working with dangerous people, convicted murders, life-or-death stakes, and somehow they remain totally disconnected from it. So yeah, the wait-and-see approach basically.
Wow was this comment ever a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 04:42 am (UTC)This, yes; I feel this is it: Finally, something hits too close to home, but it is not the expected (Lamar Bishop taking revenge for being failed; crazy Colin Sweeney plotting a sweet dark murder) but the entirely unexpected and therefore completely, gruesomely realistic.
...but as I implied below, as someone disabled by brutal accidents that forever ended the life I'd known until then, I am bound to find more truth in this than others.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 09:11 pm (UTC)I think anyone who's been surprised by some sort of catastrophic accident or sudden death (and kind of, when is death not sudden? Even when you think you're prepared for it, when it happens it's always like, today? Not next week or the week after or in a few months or just a year?) can relate, but I sympathize with the people who say that's not what they watch TV for. And especially this show, which I think has characters who are believable adults but still keeps that TV veneer of glossy unreality; they talk to about money but can afford a different suit for every day of the week and Alicia's beautiful three bedroom. I don't live in Chicago, but I have a pretty good idea of what that rent would cost in NYC for example. I definitely understand people quitting the show because it's made them unhappy, and honestly I wish more fans did do that; what mildly annoys me is people claiming the show has jumped the shark because I think this was a very considered move and it's hard to make claims of something being about to go downhill when you don't actually know how anything's going to play out. Unless you're prescient of course.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-26 04:03 pm (UTC)And in a way I'm kind of glad at the way it pulls together the previous ugliness of Kalinda's stories; it's always been Kalinda dealing with the ugliness while the other characters are untouched by it and finally it feels they're aiming for some kind of cohesion, I guess. Because they are working with dangerous people, convicted murders, life-or-death stakes, and somehow they remain totally disconnected from it. So yeah, the wait-and-see approach basically.
Definitely waiting and seeing. And excited about the story possibilities for Kalinda here, though I will say this: if they bring Kalinda and Alicia back together as friends again, it cannot be at the cost of Kalinda's person ever again. I want some reciprocation on Alicia's part for once. Because at least before Kalinda had a Will, and now she doesn't.
(Gah, I'm thinking about how he brought them all together and the way for all his flights of madness he was the warm, pulsing heart that grounded them and ugh. Who will Diane scold now)
no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 04:11 am (UTC)THIS IS AMAZING AND BOLD AND COMPELLING AND I COULD GO ON AND DO THE WHOLE ALPHABET!111
This show, man. THIS SHOW. :)
no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 04:37 am (UTC)And, of course, I liked it because it was The Good Wife, which is usually all about grace: under pressure, and in other situations too. I don't trust many shows, but TGW (when it is not about race, sigh, or a more mature treatment of Eli Gold) is the one that may just pull this one off.
* Speaking of words starting with F, foreshadowing I think we do get: a lot of character storylines get, if not tied up, then at least partially resolved: He and Alicia find their footing, find a sense of peace, and do smile at each other with honest appreciation and respect in their last scene. Will and Kalinda affirm their BFFness, to put it in crude terms (what they really are, deep down, is siblings in arms, of course). The only one that smarts and shocks and leaves and empty space is Diane, and for her I weep.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-26 04:09 pm (UTC)Because how can you make up for HER loss? It's Will and Diane, it's been Will and Diane since day one and it was supposed to be Will and Diane till Diane is old and senile like Stern became and Will's a charming silver fox, still unable to keep it in his pants and coming to Diane for advice. It was Will and Diane against the world.
I cannot get over her expression when she heard the gunshot. She knew. At that very moment, she knew.
I DON'T KNOW HOW I WILL LOOK AT DIANE WITHOUT HER WILL OKAY, WHO WILL SHE SCOLD NOW AND SHARE THE BEST PLATONIC MARRIAGE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD WITH?
(I won't lie, I'm legitimately tearing up. Screw this. I feel Whedoned. Though not as gratuitous, or poorly planned. BUT WHATEVER LET ME IRRATIONAL FOR A MINUTE.)
no subject
Date: 2014-03-25 12:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-03-26 04:15 pm (UTC)But if Kalinda and Alicia are friends again, I want more reciprocation from Alicia. I want Alicia to have her back - which she did, back in the days - like Kalinda always has hers. Because I don't know, her callous 'I thought she was gay' statement is something that really annoyed me - Kalinda told her explicitly that she doesn't identify as gay, but someone whose sexuality is fluid, and for Alicia to blatantly ignore that feels like such an erasure of her identity to me. Even if she wasn't there to hear it. I know that it's the 'seeing' part that caught her unawares, but still.
no subject
Date: 2014-03-28 03:35 am (UTC)WHAT JUST HAPPENED
no subject
Date: 2014-03-28 06:50 am (UTC)IT HASN'T SUNK IN
(I read the NPR article you linked to - I agree on the irritation with the Kings' statement that they're doing a brand!new!exciting! thing, given that tv does this often. Two shows did it this very week. But that said, this is a show that can do consequence like none other. And I cannot honestly think of any storyline that could have gotten Will away from LG except this. Diane was the one who kept leaving - Will did not. In fact, Will's always been the guy who never lets go, of people or of things.)