holy frak

[swatkat]

This show leaves me incapable of coherent thought. I have no words. No words.

How do I love this episode? Let me count the ways.

* Kara and Lee together, in action. I've missed Team Starbuck and Apollo, and this is it.

* Starbuck being slightly crazy.

* Lee and Tigh face-off! (S1 flashbacks, anyone?)

* I shivered when Lee and Tigh had the confrontation. Because Lee is right about Zarek, in the sense that it *is* hard to be 'allies' with the Cylons. BSG, you're being political again, aren't you?

* CONTINUITY: Private Jaffy from 'A Day in the Life'! Cain! New Caprica!

* Adama. Tigh. Adama and Tigh. Adama and Tigh in action, Adama and Tigh taking charge, Adama and Tigh sticking together till the very end, Adama and Tigh deciding to go out together in a blaze of glory. Because BSG is the tale of the true bromance of Bill Adama and Saul Tigh, and there are no words to describe how I felt watching them together. Not enough exclamation marks: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem.

* Adama and Roslin. ADAMA AND ROSLIN AND THAT KISS IN THE END WHERE THEY TOTALLY EMBARASSED LEE AND KARA AND EVERYONE ELSE AND ESPECIALLY LEE, OH GOD.

* Roslin, back in action.

* Tyrol, being steady and awesome.

* Baltar, you magnificent snivelling bastard! And the phonecall to Gaeta!

* Baltar and Roslin sharing the screen again.

* Adama and Kara sharing the screen again.

* Gaeta, Racetrack and co. breaking my heart. Because I really do love them all, and now they're fighting their own. And there will be no redemption.

* The pace. Oh, the pace! The action!

* Sam, Caprica, Athena and Helo in a cell together. This has potential for awesomeness.

* 'It's been an honour to have served with you, my friend.'

This is not just 'classic' BSG. This is BSG at its very best, using its ensemble cast to perfection and leaving you breathless.

Guh.

Comments

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

I KNOW. SO GOOD.

I do not have an icon that is epic enough.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

EPICEPICEPIC. This is 'Exodus II' level epic. No, this is 'Kobol's Last Gleaming' and early S2 level epic.

THEY AREN'T GONNA KILL RACETRACK ARE THEY?

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

That's what I thought! "Kobol's Last Gleaming"! I mean, nothing tops Galactica crashing through the atmosphere, but this was amazing on the level of KLG for certain.

I HOPE NOT. I WANT HER TO COME BACK TO THE LIGHT. I LOVE HER. I have no Racetrack icon. This is unacceptable.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I mean, nothing tops Galactica crashing through the atmosphere, but this was amazing on the level of KLG for certain.

Yes! It's *still* my favourite BSG moment ever, and Exodus II is still one of my favourite BSG episodes ever, but this episode matched KLG in the action packed goodness.

I WANT RACETRACK TO LIVE OKAY? THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

God, it's the best. The BEST.

I ALSO WANT RACETRACK TO LIVE. AND SKULLS.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

AND POOR DEAR GAETA.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

Frankly, at this point, I'll live if he dies, but oh, honey, what a rough road it's been for you, Felix.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I've braced myself for his death, BUT IT'S NOT FAIR OKAY?

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

I agree! Because, as you've pointed out in your magnificent discussion, he's not wrong. THEREIN LIES THE GREATNESS.

I do get mad at people who don't do their jobs, though. Gaeta. Laura. Tory. Bugnuts Captain Kara on the Demetrius, not willing to bring her people home. Lee, quitting the CAP in a huff.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Or Adama, forgetting that his job description is 'Admiral', not 'Dictator'. Sigh.

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

At least that was doing too much of his job. And hell, he never went as far as Cain.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

But Cain is not a standard. That's like saying at least Roslin is better than Baltar!

[leiascully.livejournal.com]

I think it's more like saying that Roslin is better than Zarek, but you do have a point. (I think Lee would be the Baltar in the equation of commanders. Poor Fat Lee.)

[vitawash24.livejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY. SERIOUSLY. *FLAILS*

That was such an amazing episode. A-may-zing.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I HAVE NO WORDS! *FLAILS WITH YOU*

[shutterbug-12.livejournal.com]

What is this amazing show of which you speak?

Also, I think it's you who talks about this show, but I just have to say that I've started watching How I Met Your Mother, and what a fun little show. It makes for a nice new Monday night line up. Big Bang Theory and How I Met Your Mother. Good times.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

It's called Battlestar Galactica (a re-imagining of the original '70s show), and it's made of awesome. It's one of the best written things on television right now and is on its last season right now. I don't have words for how good it is, really. It has a cracking ensemble cast, brave characters and stupid characters and brave characters doing stupid things and stupid characters doing brave things and... It has continuity, it has dramatic irony, it has ethics and politics and religion... At this point, I'm just glued to my seat, waiting for the story to end. Since you like tragedy and drama and bleak, this should be right up your alley.

If you choose to watch it - which you totally should - you must never read a single episode reaction post ever again and watch it in this order:

Miniseries
S1
S2
S3
Razor (tv movie)
S4

You must also never spoil yourself, ever. Not one single spoiler. That means no fanfic, either. Because this story has a serious plot (even if it doesn't make sense at time). And the payoff is worth it.

HIMYM is my awesome happy show. I'm glad you're watching!

[shutterbug-12.livejournal.com]

This sounds like a science-fiction-y show. I don't normally like these. I wonder if I can overlook that part. *ponders*

HIMYM is such a happy show. =) (See, I like happy, too, shut up.) LOL

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a sci-fi fan. But BSG? Is awesomeawesomeawesome. You could give the mini a try. If you like the mini, you will like the show. It's four hours long, so it won't take a lot of investment!

*uses appropriate HIMYM icon*

[delle.livejournal.com]

oh, I have to interject momentarily - Battlestar Galactica is a character-driven show dealing with morality, ethics, politics and the difficult decisions that have to be made after a nuclear holocaust.

It just *happens* to take place in space.

please give it a try! the mini is most excellent and I also highly recommend the first of the episodes immediately after the miniseries, "33".

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Oh, dear. I was left completely cold by this episode, and it's strange to see everyone else reacting so positively. I'm feeling a real disconnect, fannishly!

I think what bothers me, now that I've had a while to think about it, is that I felt that in earlier seasons of the show, *everyone*, including the main characters, did all sorts of stupid, selfish, and cruel things. No one was 100% heroic and "on the right side". Now, TPTB seem to be somehow lumping characters into categories of "right" versus "wrong" in much more simplistic ways, and -- what a coincidence! -- the "right" ones just happen to be the main stars! It leaves me unsettled and dissatisfied.

There's more that bothers me, but I can't seem to come up with a good way to express it. Maybe I'll commit some meta in my own LJ at some point.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

But! What made the episode awesome is that it didn't lump people into right and wrong! Because Gaeta and Zarek and Racetruck are right - why should humans have any reason to trust them? Why should they *not* plot against the heavy-handed Adama/Roslin administration that has promised them a home, only to dump them on frakking earth while they canoodle in Bill's quarters? We know Saul Tigh is awesome, but why should anyone else who is not privy to that information feel the same way? Why should they not believe that he was instrumental in every misfortune that has befallen them? How do they know that Starbuck just cremated her own dead body? Throughout this season, the main characters have been doing a variety of stupid, selfish and cruel things (Adama, Roslin, Starbuck...). It's just that at this point, Adama's wrong is a better option than Zarek's right. And it *hurts* to see our beloved crew falling apart. And the fact that the 'main' characters are on Adama's side while the 'not-so-main' ones are one the wrong one is in fact a result of the way Adama has created his inner circle, with his favoured children (and girlfriend and BFF), while the others are left out in the cold. Why did Dee have to die? Why did Felix have to rebel? There are issues of class here that I will meta here someday when I have more time to think about it, but needless to say, I *love* the way this is playing out.

I'm sorry, this episode just pushed all my buttons, I can't help gushing. Guh.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

I don't want to harsh your squee! I really don't, so tell me to back off if I am. But! Here's the thing for me.

All of the things you say above about the "rebel" position being perfectly understandable are true. But for me, that makes it worse! Because it seems fairly clear that TPTB expect the viewers to take Adama et al.'s side and to be thrilled that they're standing together and "fighting the good fight", blah blah blah. We're supposed to cheer on Adama when he says there will be no mercy for the rebels, and we're supposed to be whooping it up that Starbuck -- who's been an asshole and a bully the entire series -- is "kicking ass" again.

And boy, oh boy, does this push my buttons! In a bad way. You see, in earlier seasons, the main characters were fighting each other -- Adama versus Roslin versus Tigh versus Kara versus Lee versus Baltar and so on, in all sorts of shifting factions and alliances. Because the main characters were divided, there wasn't this overwhelming weight of "TPTB's Favored Side versus the People Who Are Obviously Wrong and Going to Lose", and that complexity is what made the show rise above the rest of television for me. It forced the viewer out of the all-too-easy habit of just cheering on the good guys, because there *weren't* any good guys.

This would be bad enough if there weren't the clear class issues that you mentioned. But there are! Basically, what the show seems to be doing now is glorifying the "special people", the elite who know what's best for the poor ignorant plebes. The majority -- who have suffered every bit as much as Adama and co., thank you very much -- are rendered completely helpless and passive and get no say over their own destiny.

What Zarek insisted on was not unreasonable: that every ship in the fleet should have the right to say "no" to being boarded by those who committed genocide against their people, and to say "no" to their enemy's technology -- even at the cost of...well, whatever cost there really is supposed to be, as I find that fact that human technology suddenly is inadequate to be a really huge Convenient Plot Device, I must say. Being able to say "no" under these circumstances is possibly the last shred of human dignity most people have left.

So, this leaves me in the position of siding with Gaeta, Zarek, Racetrack, Seelix...and knowing that TPTB *cannot* let them prevail. It kind of leaves me feeling a little sick, to be honest.

Gah...sorry for ranting in your journal. If this upsets you, tell me and I'll delete this.

[delle.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure the PTB want us to completely root for Adama and company... they even had Lee get in Tigh's face it's all they've left us. I think it's pretty clear - or at least it is among the fannish responses, you could be absolutely right that we're reading more into this than TPTB intended - that actually Gaeta and Zarek are right in their position. It's just their actions that are wrong.

I don't mean to be dogpiling on your different interpretation. I LOVE to show talk.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Don't worry about dogpiling! I don't mind disagreement, and I'd actually be really happy if all of you could somehow argue me out of this!

I think it's pretty clear - or at least it is among the fannish responses

Is it? All I seem to be seeing are "Yay, Go Team Adama!" kind of responses, which is part of why I kind of feel...I don't know, disoriented and a little bewildered, I guess. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong fannish places.

You're right to bring up Lee, though. He was really the saving grace of the episode for me. My respect for him grew exponentially. (Although I started to be impressed with him when he chose to defend Baltar -- but this sealed it.)

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Because Lee is the most - and the only - self-aware one among them.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Heh. You can rant as much as you want to in my journal, you know that. Nothing can harsh my squee, and arguing is one my favourite fannish activities!

Because it seems fairly clear that TPTB expect the viewers to take Adama et al.'s side and to be thrilled that they're standing together and "fighting the good fight", blah blah blah.

It's clear that TPTB want us to take Adama and co.'s side. But are we 'supposed' to cheer on for them because they're fighting on the side of 'good' or because they're fighting for what they believe is the sanest available option at this point, the only option that can bring some semblance of peace? There is so much *wrong* with the way the 'good guys' have gone about - they *are* the elite, as you mentioned, they're the chosen (literally), they're Adama's inner circle, the ones ignoring the fleet's voice For Their Own Good, thereby depriving them of their agency. Are we also not supposed to mourn Gaeta and Racetrack and Skulls and everyone else, mourn the fact that it has come to this?

We're supposed to cheer on Adama when he says there will be no mercy for the rebels, and we're supposed to be whooping it up that Starbuck -- who's been an asshole and a bully the entire series -- is "kicking ass" again.

Or are we supposed to shudder when Adama says when there will be no mercy for the rebels, because the *Galactica crew* is now fighting amongst themselves and killing their own, their brothers and sisters? Are we supposed to merely whoop and cheer for ass-kicking Starbuck or also be a little sickened by the fact that she will merrily *kill* 'the enemy', who are her own? (and be further sickened by the fact that while Adama looked disapproving, it is highly unlikely that Kara will ever be chastised for her actions, because in that case Sam should've been in the brig a long time ago)

Am I sounding very confusing? What I'm trying say here, I think, that the situation here demands a much more complex response than Good vs. Evil, and if that's drowned in my initial squee at seeing Our Heroes in action, I'm sorry. Because I don't think Gaeta and co. are losing losers who must lose. I want them all to stand together and find themselves at home and defend themselves against the Cavils and the Dorals when they show up.

This is all very The Mahabharata (brothers against each other, morally ambiguous heroes etc.) for me, actually, and I'm enjoying it immensely.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

are we supposed to shudder when Adama says when there will be no mercy for the rebels

I honestly think that no, we're not supposed to shudder at this.

Are we supposed to merely whoop and cheer for ass-kicking Starbuck

Yes. The way one whoops and cheers for Jack Bauer on 24.

the situation here demands a much more complex response than Good vs. Evil

It certainly got a more complex response from me -- but I don't see it in the wider fandom at *all*, which is in part why I have this horrible feeling that TPTB aren't going for ambiguity here: they're going for an Important Story Arc for the main characters, be it tragic or triumphant, and the "rebels" are simply fodder for the main characters' subjectivity. (If moral ambiguity was the goal, the rebel/loyalist split would have divided the starring cast, as before.)

I want them all to stand together and find themselves at home and defend themselves against the Cavils and the Dorals when they show up.

Oh, I expect there will ultimately be some sort of reconciliation, with at least some of the rebels (probably not Gaeta -- I think he's a dead man), but it will be on the loyalists' terms. They have to be proven right, justify their speshulness, etc.

Bah. At this point, I don't want to see them stand together at all. I'd rather see the majority of what's left of humanity seize back some agency, even if it means they're choosing to make a final, doomed last stand (which, you know, is not the only possible outcome, just because Adama thinks it so).

Boy oh boy. I haven't been *angry* at a show like this since S4 of LFN. We'll see what the next episode brings, I guess.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I honestly think that no, we're not supposed to shudder at this.

Even though this is *Felix Gaeta*, who was almost universally adored before this? Whose w00bification went further after the loss of his leg and the fact that Sam suffered no consequences for it? Whose actions TPTB actually went on to further complicate by the webisodes?


Yes. The way one whoops and cheers for Jack Bauer on 24.

And yet, Adama stopped her. And this is not meant for us to stop and think for a moment before we get caught up in the pace again?

It certainly got a more complex response from me -- but I don't see it in the wider fandom at *all*, which is in part why I have this horrible feeling that TPTB aren't going for ambiguity here: they're going for an Important Story Arc for the main characters, be it tragic or triumphant, and the "rebels" are simply fodder for the main characters' subjectivity.

Here is an instance. (http://millari.livejournal.com/162323.html) Here is another. (http://airings.livejournal.com/154963.html) I randomly pulled these from the galacticanews links - I'm sure there are more. I can't blame fandom for squeeing when I myself squeed seeing our heroes running around and doing stuff, but I don't think there has been an unequivocal ADAMA IS RIGHT AND GAETA IS WRONG response. I don't think that's what TPTB was aiming for.

(If moral ambiguity was the goal, the rebel/loyalist split would have divided the starring cast, as before.)

And yet in the recaplet we got Adama's dictatorial dismissal of the Quorum as a reminder of *why* Gaeta and co. are acting the way the are.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Even though this is *Felix Gaeta*, who was almost universally adored before this? Whose w00bification went further after the loss of his leg and the fact that Sam suffered no consequences for it?

Actually, it's the Felix Gaeta who was widely excoriated for having *dared* talk smack to Ms. Special Destiny in that earlier episode.

I randomly pulled these from the galacticanews links - I'm sure there are more.

Right. I should back up here and clarify -- I don't mean to say that there are *no* nuanced reactions being shared in the wider fandom, just that the vast majority seem to be pretty much uncritical squeeage -- or if there is critique of character actions, very one-sided in favor of the main characters. (Go read more of the posts in that same galacticanews update!)

Even some of the more balanced reactions seem to be taking the position that, well, the rebel position is understandable but *of course* we the fans know they're in the wrong. And actually, I disagree with that, too. Given what has happened in canon thus far, the rebel position is actually easier to support -- even *with* the additional information that the fans have about the way the allied Cylons have behaved up until now. But because the main characters (and therefore TPTB) have taken the opposing position, most fen deem it to be the better choice. I'm quite sure that TPTB will write the upcoming episodes to prove the main characters right, but as of now, it's the less defensible position, as far as I'm concerned. I won't hog up your LJ with my long rationalization, though!

Anyway, I do think that TPTB are stacking the decks in a way that makes me very uncomfortable and disappointed. Subsequent episodes may prove me wrong, and I would be very happy if that turned out to be the case.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Actually, it's the Felix Gaeta who was widely excoriated for having *dared* talk smack to Ms. Special Destiny in that earlier episode.

Okay, seriously? I love Ms. Special Destiny, but she is a crazy frak. I thought her crazy *is* a part of her appeal, but apparently I'm a minority?

(Go read more of the posts in that same galacticanews update!)

I did! Yikes! (Have we been watching the same show? I understand the squee, I really do, because seeing our heroes running about and shooting stuff gets this gut 'Whee!' reaction from me)

I'm quite sure that TPTB will write the upcoming episodes to prove the main characters right, but as of now, it's the less defensible position, as far as I'm concerned.

I guess we'll have to wait and watch, but I'd like to point out that TPTB have consistently pointed out that the Adama/Roslin administration is heavyhanded and dictatorial.

I won't hog up your LJ with my long rationalization, though!

But I wanna knooooow! *stamps foot* On your LJ, then?

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Well...let me take a stab at making it short. LOL.

I think Adama's position is actually rather reckless and irrational, for the following reasons:

1. It isn't just a tactical alliance he's ordering, where if it doesn't work out, both sides can still defend themselves. In actuality, the human fleet will be *disarming itself* with respect to the "allied" Cylons. Adama has no idea what might be included in those Cylon jump drives: will they stop working if the Cylons hit the right switch? Could they track the fleet, send signals back to the Cavils, blow up the ships they're in? Adama hasn't got the faintest idea: he's relying on Tyrol for everything he knows about this technology. Once the drives are installed, there's no going back -- it could actually be the end of the human fleet for good.

2. For this to be safe, the allied Cylons have to be completely trustworthy. The problem is, they are *inherently* unreliable. Not only does Adama not really know whether they can be trusted, the Cylons themselves don't know! We've seen time and again that their programming sometimes hides things from their conscious minds. So they can be utterly sincere, and yet no one can know when that "switch" might be triggered that makes them turn against the humans. In a very important respect, the Cylons have no free will: so Adama isn't just putting his faith in his BFF Tigh, he's putting his faith in whoever programmed Tigh -- the Cylon God, perhaps? I think this is crazy. Seriously crazy.

3. Finally, this isn't a clear-cut situation where they must install the Cylon drives or die. The human technology has worked just fine all these years. Now, apparently the Cylon technology works "better" -- maybe -- but all we have is Tyrol's word on that, really. And for the reasons set forth above, Tyrol, no matter how sincere he may believe he is, cannot be trusted.

In the end, I expect TPTB will arrange for everything to work out and Adama's choice be vindicated, but at this point in the series, he's making what I think is a CRAZY choice. Mostly because he loves his BFF. He deserves to be deposed.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

The problem is, they are *inherently* unreliable. Not only does Adama not really know whether they can be trusted, the Cylons themselves don't know! We've seen time and again that their programming sometimes hides things from their conscious minds. So they can be utterly sincere, and yet no one can know when that "switch" might be triggered that makes them turn against the humans. In a very important respect, the Cylons have no free will: so Adama isn't just putting his faith in his BFF Tigh, he's putting his faith in whoever programmed Tigh -- the Cylon God, perhaps?

Ooh, yes. Exactly. But I have a question - what about Athena? Haven't we seen her consistently act against whatever her programming might be? What about Caprica? Of course, what makes this situation different is that we don't *know* how the Final Five work. *They* don't know how they work.

...at this point in the series, he's making what I think is a CRAZY choice. Mostly because he loves his BFF. He deserves to be deposed.

I *completely* agree with you. Except that I love him for it. Because he loves his BFF. And also everyone else, including Gaeta. And despite the lecture about honour, Adama is currently enraged because Gaeta has betrayed *him*, personally (and called him a sad old man). And what is really ironic is that while Adama is enraged at Gaeta's personal betrayal, he himself is entirely responsible for it.

he's making what I think is a CRAZY choice

And because he is high-handed, he has not seen it fit to discuss the rationale behind his 'military decisions' time and again with the fleet.

I still think that TPTB has consistently shown Adama to be acting in a manner that borders on dictatorial, dismissing the Quorum and the civilian voices in the fleet and now his own soldiers. I hope I'm not wrong in my reading of him, because if we are supposed to find Adama shining and perfect, my satisfaction from whatever end that they give him will be diminished considerably.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Oh, I forgot to come back here and answer you!

But I have a question - what about Athena? Haven't we seen her consistently act against whatever her programming might be? What about Caprica?

Well, I'm not so sure they're acting against their programming. Athena seems pretty consistently motivated by her desire to protect Hera, and that's quite possibly the *real* point of her programming. As for Caprica, maybe she was intended to hook up with Tigh...we don't know, and what's more, *she* doesn't really know.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Continuing on what I already said: I hope I'm not wrong in my reading of him, because if we are supposed to find Adama shining and perfect, my satisfaction from whatever end that they give him will be diminished considerably.

I also still believe Razor was filmed for a reason other than exploring Cain's character.

[thedeadparrot.livejournal.com]

Hi! I wandered in randomly, and I want to say that I've been feeling the same way about pretty much everything you've said about this season (and I would love your opinions on the latest ep). The show definitely seems to be on Adama's side, unequivocally, and that even as we sympathize with Gaeta, we know he's *wrong*. He's siding with the bad guys and we're meant to see that as a fall from grace, if you will.

And there's definitely not enough characters we know and care about on the same side as Gaeta and Zarek for this to be in any way, a meaningful civil war. Sure, we've got a few minor characters thrown in here and there, but at the same time, were we really supposed to be on the same side as the RAPIST? There's not that same feeling that their loyalties are actually divided (and therefore ours should be as well), because everyone we care about (besides Gaeta and possibly Zarek) is allied with Adama.

(And swatkat24, sorry for hijacking your journal as well.)

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Hijack away! I haven't seen the latest ep yet... Maybe in another couple of days. *sigh*

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

There's not that same feeling that their loyalties are actually divided (and therefore ours should be as well), because everyone we care about (besides Gaeta and possibly Zarek) is allied with Adama.

Yes, that's it exactly! The reason I loved the show in the first place was because it did such a good job of refusing to allow the viewer to be comfortable choosing sides, which is really, really unusual on television. In this plot arc, in contrast, TPTB just went for standard old action genre tropes.

(and I would love your opinions on the latest ep)

I don't think swatkat24 has seen it yet (I only just did myself), so I'll wander over to your LJ and comment there.