a bad country for gods

[swatkat]

I finished reading American Gods. I have mixed feelings. On one hand: fantastic premise, fantastic narrative, beautiful prose. On the other hand: Gary Stu hero, patchy characterization, problematic representation of non-white characters.

1. I finished Neverwhere before this, and is it just me or is there something *seriously* off with Gaiman's characterization in both these books? As I told jaybee65 here:

I don't want to comment of Gaiman's characterization skills in *general*, but with both American Gods and Neverwhere there's one specific problem - great premise, great narrative, but very patchy characterization. I don't recall having a similar problem with Good Omens, so maybe that was Terry Pratchett's awesome influence?

I mean, Marquis de Carabas is awesome in theory, but there's something missing in the book itself.

2. I was going to call Shadow bland (much like Richard Mayhew), but after the vigil and the 'Luke, I'm your father' thing, I tend to agree with jaybee65 on his Stu-ishness.

3. jaybe65 said: ...the non-Western characters frankly didn't stray at *all* out of Magical-Negro territory

swatkat24 said: word on the presentation of the non-Western characters. He tries really hard, and I'll give him points for that, but it's not enough. I don't think I want to read Anansi Boys.

Anyone wish to convince me otherwise?

4. jaybee65 also pointed out: And now that I think about it, there's another thing that bothered me (although I might just be remembering the details of the book wrong): there were non-Western characters in American Gods embodying various non-Western mythological figures (that is, representing the ancient, the decaying, and the displaced), but was there any non-white representation within the "new" mythological figures (that is, the "TV" God, etc.)? I don't remember there being any, and hello? American popular culture has hardly been lily-white, after all.

5. After two consecutive 'the good guys are actually the bad guys', I'm a bit irritated.


That said, I'd recommend Good Omens to anyone who hasn't read it.

Thoughts, flist?

Comments

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

I don't think I want to read Anansi Boys.

Anyone wish to convince me otherwise?

It's pretty much my favourite book in the world, and far closer to Good Omens than any of his other stuff, but if you don't like his stuff in general you could well hate it.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I don't really hate Neverwhere and American Gods, but I'm disappointed by them. I can't bring myself to try right now, but maybe I will, at some point.

[bluerosefairy.livejournal.com]

the non-Western characters frankly didn't stray at *all* out of Magical-Negro territory

I would disagree with that - Salim, the man who met the ifrit/djinn doesn't have any characteristics of a Magical Negro. He's actually more oppressed by his own people - his brother, who blackmails him into selling the figurines, most notably. He doesn't exist solely to serve the white protagonist.

And okay, there are issues with Shadow, but it's the Norse pantheon. Shadow and Wednesday and Loki all kind of have to be white. I think it's a brilliant book, and I love it to pieces, but yes, you're right about the problematic nature of the message it sends. I actually never thought about how none of the "new" gods are non-white.

Anansi Boys is lovely. I think it's fantastic, and if it's one thing, it's racially diverse. It has a bit of race issues - I've heard some criticism leveled at it, but I'm not in a place to judge how valid that criticism is - but overall, it's very close in tone to Neverwhere. And you have to love Fat Charlie and his lime. :P

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I forgot about Salim! That snippet was actually very lovely.

But I'm still pretty dissatisfied with Anansi and Kali in particular.

I don't mind Shadow's whiteness, really, but the fact that he's very... boring.

[zulu]

I feel the same way about Gaiman's characterization. When I try to tell people that his books don't do much for me, although I find them completely readable, I get strange looks. But I think it's exactly as you say. Lots of things happen, but do I care?

Anansi Boys felt the same way to me. Readable, but I don't think I'd pick it up again.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Lots of things happen, but do I care?

Exactly! Where are the characters to root for?

[thedeadparrot.livejournal.com]

I tend not to like Gaiman's novels as much. I've always had issues trying to explain why. I like his short stories/comics much better, because I think his imagination works better in those formats. I definitely recommend Sandman or one of his short story collections (Smoke and Mirrors or Fragile Things).

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I've wanted to read Sandman for a while, but the price scares me. Maybe someday!

A lot of things *happen* in the novels, but there's something... missing about them.

[nestra.livejournal.com]

American Gods and Anansi Boys aren't my favorite of his. On the other hand, the characters in Anansi Boys are predominantly black.

I do love Neverwhere, but I can see your point about the Marquis. Maybe it suffers from having been a mini-series first?

I have The Graveyard Book sitting by my bed to read, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

Hm, I find Neil Gaiman totally overrated. I read (and quite enjoyed, in a it's-a-quick-read-with-nice-enough-ideas way) American Gods, but I'm not overly impressed. I didn't like Good Omens all that much, either, despite the fact that I really like Pratchett, and I found Anansi Boys trivial. And after listening to the Neverwhere audio-book and watching the first episode (couldn't bring myself to watch the rest yet, and I love Paterson Joseph), I was shocked that this is the thing that sparked off such a cult. It was so... bland. I sometimes feel like I'm the only one who finds that he writes seriously uninteresting characters.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed it, and I *loved* the premise, but I'm not really fangirling him. His characters are *very* boring, and I can't get past that hurdle.

[lyras.livejournal.com]

I read Anansi Boys the other week and was pleasantly surprised. Character-wise - hmm. I think he gets it a bit better here than in American Gods. The main character is less of a blank slate than Shadow, at least.

The first two people mentioned in the acknowledgements are Nalo Hopkinson and Lenny Henry, and Hopkinson, at least, read the manuscript and corrected Gaiman on a few things.

I thought the race aspects (at least the British side of things; I'm less sure of the US parts) were covered pretty well. But then, I am white; I read it trying to keep my eyes open to internalised prejudices, but I'm always likely to miss a few.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I don't think I want to buy it anymore. Maybe I can borrow...

[sk56.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you for the reminder about Good Omens. I started reading it to Iz when he was really sick awhile ago, and he took over when he got better so I only got a couple chapters in. But I have a long plane flight coming up, and that will be just the thing.

Have been reading some of the Twilight series, trying to understand what all the fuss is about (do not have a girl, so do not often see girly things), but really didn't want to take the next one on holiday...

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Read Good Omens! And then you can read everything else that Pratchett has written, because he's *awesome* (and quite possibly introduce Iz to it, because he seems to have good taste).

Have been reading some of the Twilight series, trying to understand what all the fuss is about (do not have a girl, so do not often see girly things), but really didn't want to take the next one on holiday...

Hee! So, are you looove with the sparkly vampire extraordinaire?

[nell65.livejournal.com]

I didn't care much for American Gods either - mostly because of the Shadow is boring thing, but also - he set that book in *my* part of the world, Chicago, Wisconsin, Minnesota - and made (IMO) the wrong freaking gods come to life. This area was fully settled for 100s (if not 1000s) of years before Europeans showed up - where were those gods??, and when whites did finally arrive on the scene - they were largely Catholic or Protestant. From France, Great Britain (mostly England) then southern Germany. Where were all the crazy saints? The Scandinavians/Norsemen were/are relatively late comers to the scene.

I was also sort of amazed that he could take this powerfully beautiful, rich and agriculturally productive landscape and make it all about nothing but snow, dark and cold. And post-industrial land too, but seriously? That is mostly further east -- Michigan, northern Ohio, Western Pennsylvania.

Instead of making me look at my world in a new way, which could be interesting, if uncomfortable - I spent most of the book thinking - have you ever even been here? I understand that he has - but still! lol!

[nell65.livejournal.com]

In fact, come to think of it - I think I skimmed the last third, having lost the ability to concentrate on the story and getting impatient with the whole thing.

I did read stardust after I saw the movie - and while I liked it a lot, I'm glad I saw the movie first. The characters in the book are flat - much flatter and more walking talking tropes rather than people whom you (me!) can really care much about, the way they were embodied in the movie. I was also slightly irked by the hints in the book that that was an exciting compelling life threatening quest going on - all off stage. I wanted to read that story too! *g*