I think it comes from a discussion on the original thread about people's motivations in writing. One person took the position that the urge to write slash, both m/m and f/f, comes from the same place, and another countered that no, that's not necessarily so: some f/f fans are interested in exploring specifically female characters/perspectives/relationships. Perhaps this is being interpreted as some sort of separatist position, although I think that's very mistaken. Having one's primary fannish (or even fiction-reading) interest be the exploration of female identity via female characters does not translate into separatism. Or else I'm a separatist myself, and I think my male partner would be rather surprised to hear it.
There is a thread running through some of these discussions which, however feminist the agendas and identities involved, opperates on the human default=male model. In this light m/m is then 'free' of gender politics - as though this was either a desirable or admirable or even tenable position. In this context, then, to express a desire to focus on female identity/characters/issues gets read as a rejection of human identity. Which is, you know, gag inducing.
My issue is that I'm just not all that interested in reading about men. I'm not saying I'm not interested at *all*, but the male characters aren't the first thing I look for. Which I freely admit is just a personal preference and don't try to ascribe any political significance to.
I'm more interested in reading and writing about men than you are, that is true, but I'm not especially interested in reading about men without women. I've realized that this is one of the reasons I don't much care for slash across the board, even granting some of my other problems with it - identifying with Aragorn or Hornoblower as straight men when I was quite young, for example. (And what that might say about my sexuality, I have no bloody idea.) Men without women, well, I find them a little dull. IMO, gender politics in action is what makes men interesting. *g* To each there own, you know.
The OP in the thread, whom I've engaged with before (I'd do the little linky thingy, but I don't know how and am too lazy to look it up), when I said this, responded that my preference for reading about women, and lack of interest in reading about men with men, could be read as misandric. I cheerfully agreed. I could very well be misandric when I say that boys being boys together interests me not at all. (I could even be exaggerating, though, not by much. ;-) The interesting thing, though, was that I didn't say I didn't like men, or respect them, or that I hated them - I just said I found m/m centered fic and stories dull.
There is so much going on in these discussions, trying to parse it is like a rubric's cube puzzle. And I never did learn to solve those, though not for lack of trying.
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branchandroot
Re: Oh, boy. Can of worms. Opened.
Date: 2005-05-12 01:48 am (UTC)There is a thread running through some of these discussions which, however feminist the agendas and identities involved, opperates on the human default=male model. In this light m/m is then 'free' of gender politics - as though this was either a desirable or admirable or even tenable position. In this context, then, to express a desire to focus on female identity/characters/issues gets read as a rejection of human identity. Which is, you know, gag inducing.
My issue is that I'm just not all that interested in reading about men. I'm not saying I'm not interested at *all*, but the male characters aren't the first thing I look for. Which I freely admit is just a personal preference and don't try to ascribe any political significance to.
I'm more interested in reading and writing about men than you are, that is true, but I'm not especially interested in reading about men without women. I've realized that this is one of the reasons I don't much care for slash across the board, even granting some of my other problems with it - identifying with Aragorn or Hornoblower as straight men when I was quite young, for example. (And what that might say about my sexuality, I have no bloody idea.) Men without women, well, I find them a little dull. IMO, gender politics in action is what makes men interesting. *g* To each there own, you know.
The OP in the thread, whom I've engaged with before (I'd do the little linky thingy, but I don't know how and am too lazy to look it up), when I said this, responded that my preference for reading about women, and lack of interest in reading about men with men, could be read as misandric. I cheerfully agreed. I could very well be misandric when I say that boys being boys together interests me not at all. (I could even be exaggerating, though, not by much. ;-) The interesting thing, though, was that I didn't say I didn't like men, or respect them, or that I hated them - I just said I found m/m centered fic and stories dull.
There is so much going on in these discussions, trying to parse it is like a rubric's cube puzzle. And I never did learn to solve those, though not for lack of trying.