Paul and Madeline

[swatkat]

Since we were talking about harshness - are we, the Michael/Nikita fans, too harsh when it comes to Paul and Madeline? Even those of us who actually like and admire them (including myself)? We're always going on about their cruelty and how Michael or Nikita (Nikita for me *g*) would've done a better job as Operations - why is that so? Now that we know all about Oversight and Centre, wasn't what Paul and Madeline did for their own survival, just like the way Michael and Nikita fought to survive in Section? And what is the guarantee that Michael and Nikita wouldn't do the exact same things when they got the power? Your thoughts here. *g*

Nell, tell me why Nikita wouldn't fall in the same trap as Paul in order to survive.

Comments

Part I a -

[nell65.livejournal.com]

(Becaue I wrote this off line last night and then couldn't post it - so it kept getting longer and longer and longer...)

Now, aside from ol' Nikita, there is no real evidence that the subordinates didn't trust them.

Actually – there is plenty of evidence that other ops didn’t trust them. Take Roger, from S1 – Suba had his son and was blackmailing him, and Roger was betraying Section’s secrets as a result – damaging members of his own teams. But Roger did not go to Operations for help. Or S2. Terry – pregnant and worried about what would happen to her child, did not trust Operations and Madeline with her predicament – also dealing information that undermined missions with the badguys. And the young operative who shot Operations for Petrosian in exchange for aid to his family clearly believed that Operations and Madeline would have dismissed his concerns, and would not have rewarded him equally well for coming to them once Petrosian approached him. Or O’Brien in the final season - worried about his mother and trying to hide his care of her from Section, sending Nikita on a wasted trip to prove he wasn’t a mole. These operatives didn’t trust Operations and Madeline.

Or rather, each of them trusted that Operations would kill them and discard their children/families, so they made choices that demonstrably undermined Section’s performance in ultimately futile efforts to protect themselves/defend their loved ones. Which is why I think failing to earn at least some trust on the part of their people was, in fact, an operational mistake on Madeline and Paul’s part.

Also, as I saw it, Walter clearly didn’t trust them from the beginning and urged Nikita not to either, implicitly and explicitly, and if Birkoff did trust them in the beginning – he didn’t by the end.

While I freely admit that Cold Ops would have little reason to trust them, the very fact that they remained in power implies that if they didn't trust them, they did trust in the veracity of their mission.

I do believe that when it came to missions, b/c Operations and Madeline’s lives also were at risk, the operatives felt they could trust them – if not individually, then for the mission to be as well designed as Operations and Madeline could make it.

On the whole issue of whether it was advisable to lie to their subordinates and Nikita in particular I would argue that it was. For the reasons Janet mentioned and one other; these people were sent on missions where there was a very real likelihood that they would be caught or killed - to me, it doesn't seem wise to give such people any more information than is absolutely necessary and if a lie will do - you should lie.

I agree that they had every reason to want to control the information sent out with operatives for exactly the reasons you mentioned. It was the stupid lies that couldn’t be sustained even mid-mission that irritated me – like not telling Nikita at the beginning who and what Chandler was. That one was so early in the series that even if the exact situation wasn’t repeated very often, it made everything else Madeline and Paul ever said a about a target suspect for me – though lying about the rapist/president was certainly a clincher on that one.

I would point out that in "Love," Michael implied that Bauer was likely to have had a back-up plan which would have caused more deaths and that is why they choose to allow them to die.

I always thought Michael tossed that off on the spur of the moment just to appease Nikita. Besides – my point was I think Madeline and Paul could have worked out a deception. Bauer’s only ‘proof’ that his gassing worked was a few hands feebly trying to break some windows, and presumably the sight of the rescue workers and later press reports… If Section could work up a major traffic accident for Van Vector on practically the spur of the moment, I would like to have heard a reason they couldn’t work up an equally convincing scenario in this case. Certainly, when Nikita rushed out to let him know the plan, the expression on Walter’s face suggested his conviction that Operations wouldn’t even try.