Paul and Madeline

[swatkat]

Since we were talking about harshness - are we, the Michael/Nikita fans, too harsh when it comes to Paul and Madeline? Even those of us who actually like and admire them (including myself)? We're always going on about their cruelty and how Michael or Nikita (Nikita for me *g*) would've done a better job as Operations - why is that so? Now that we know all about Oversight and Centre, wasn't what Paul and Madeline did for their own survival, just like the way Michael and Nikita fought to survive in Section? And what is the guarantee that Michael and Nikita wouldn't do the exact same things when they got the power? Your thoughts here. *g*

Nell, tell me why Nikita wouldn't fall in the same trap as Paul in order to survive.

Comments

And away I go again...

[mscyanide.livejournal.com]

"I always read Paul's insanity as a ‘last straw’ sort of thing – that had operatives been more loyal to him in the first place, they would have backed him over Michael despite the madness."

Naturally, I didn't see it that way. I think the madness was the deciding factor and that people backed Michael not because they felt any sense of loyality to him but because they felt Ops was just mad enough to get them all killed. It was a matter of survival, simple as that.

"Rene was a child-murdering shit who said the most hurtful thing he could think of, regardless of how true it was. Once he recognized he was going to die – he choose to die spitefully. I would check for myself if Rene Dion told me it was raining in the middle of a thunderstorm."

Perhaps, but I felt his words described Michael's attitude rather well.

"I’m willing to believe that some were grateful for what they had, but I’d love to know who you have in mind as I can’t think of any off hand."

How about Mintz, Henry and Elizabeth? The majority of section operatives weren't Cold Ops, as far as I can tell.

C:"Personally, I think the Gellman process is the greatest failing of TPTB. They wrote themselves into a corner in season three and I think they knew that."

N:"But it still has to accounted for in canon characterization."

I point to Ms JayBee's story - that which explains everything. *g*

C:"Instead of having Nikita evolve and make a place for herself in Section they had her stubbornly clinging to, what I view, as unrealistic ideals."

N:"You said that in your fic too. What ‘unrealistic ideals’ do you think Nikita was still clinging too? I’ve always seen her arc as one of loss of ideals."

Few for the many? Section operatives should be allowed more freedom? There is life outside Section? *wink*

Finding it difficult to remember I'm not the N in this conversation, so if there's the odd N on my own quote's don't be surprised.

Ahh - 'those' ideals -

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Few for the many?

Just because Nikita holds a different view of an undecided ethical question than you do doesn't make her 'unrealistically idealistic.' It just means you don't agree.

Section operatives should be allowed more freedom?

When did she say that? The only thing I could find, where she gave an explicit statement about what she wanted to do to improve section, in S5 was this:

Nikita to O'Brien: "Such as doing away with some of the worst features in this place. The constant surveillance, the use of abeyance operatives, that sort of thing."

Easing up on the constant surveillance I can get behind - it was invasive (and undoubtely expensive) and didn't seem to do a whole hell of a lotta good anyway.

Eliminating abeyance operatives? I think she was wrong about that - and would discover quickly as she gained more authority that you have to have some way to make sure expected losses are least damaging to your resources. But she must have had some kind of theory about how the Sections would operate without it, and I'd love to hear it....and even though I suspect it wouldn't work, you never know until you try.

There is life outside Section?

For who? For herself? She said several times from S2 on that she *didn't* think there was any life outside Section for her, and ultimately accepted her own life tenure in Section as a given.

I know this thread was about Madeline and Paul - but I've been curious about what exactly you meant for a while. Thanks for taking the time to answer me - I suspected I wouldn't see whatever it was in the same way as you do, of course, but it's good to know the specifics. *g*