Some late night musings
Apr. 17th, 2004 12:14 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
swatkatI was just thinking about the question by our curious friend on the FFMB, and wondering how I would feel about a Section-skewed story with Michael/Terry instead of Michael/Nikita; or a story (Section-skewed, totally AU, whatever) where they would be brother and sister. The only reaction was "Ewww! No way!" That got me thinking more (er, sometimes I think too much) about the widely different fannish reactions regarding canon deviation in the two fandoms I'm mostly associated with.
HP, with all its characters and very little canon romance (thank you JKR, and please keep it that way) allows all kinds of pairings that actually fit in canon. Simplest example would be all the Hermione pairings – Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione, Draco/Hermione, Snape/Hermione, Remus/Hermione (too little), and Krum/Hermione (the oddest thing is – this is the only pairing confirmed in canon, and I've seen this in what? – two fics). And I haven't even touched upon the rarer pairings or femmeslash (OT – I have never, ever seen Lockhart/Hermione, and that is so canon *eg*). But even when the pairing isn't canon, and can no way ever be canon, there is always *some* interest about it. And talented authors can make the characters act IC even as they deviate from canon. Even some of the popular slash pairings can fall in this category *coughHarryDracocough* (okay, so I can't read Harry/Draco). LFN OTOH has pretty limited scope in this aspect, because canon has very specific pairings and centres around them – you can do pairings, but in most cases it would make the characters act OOC.
However, I'm always surprised at the lack of experimental fics of any form in LFN. We chatted about the lack of sex – but that's not the only thing here. I think I'll have to give an example again – Sirius/Remus is canon (yes, it is). There are many devoted S/R shippers who love the two characters and can't bear the thought of them paired with anyone else. But there are also people who don't particularly care for any one of them, and therefore pair them with other characters, and make it work. They do it by accepting Sirius/Remus in their plots. But it always surprises me that there is no LFN story (Mary Sues don't count) pairing Michael successfully with any other character, male or female. I mean, there are plenty of people who couldn't care less about Nikita and would happily see him paired forever with Elena. And canon does give some opportunities – even if they're small. I won't buy the small fandom argument, because back in the days the fandom may not have been as big as HP, but it wasn't too small either. (IMO, it's still not as small we think it is. It's just that there is a sudden dearth of good writers – almost all the authors I care about are here, in my flist *sigh*)
Again coming back to totally fantastic pairings. HP – and LOTR too – has abundance of pairings that are not canon and will never be canon. Except for those few strangely OOC Michael/Davenport fics, I haven't seen any such pairings in LFN. The general fannish reaction will always be "Ewww!" (except with Mary Sue, perhaps *snerk*)![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
nell65 talked about the incestfic that never happened (not that I'm disappointed really). In HP, it would happen. And it would work.
I'm sure none of the above made any sense, so I'll just sum up echoing Curious: Why aren't there any different pairings in LFN (hang canon)? How come they never became popular? Why is our reaction so different?
And that said, Michael/Nikita is still my OTP. So there. *vbeg*
I did think of posting this on the FFMB for opinions, but there's no point in spamming the board with my vague ramblings. So, you all will have to read this instead.
~
Good thing: I just received news that my dear kitty (she lives at my grandfather's place in the small town where I come from) has given birth to four lovely kittens. They all seem quite healthy so far, and she is currently bringing down the house demanding food. Bad thing: I have no idea when I'll get to meet them, seeing that I can't visit too often. By the time I do, they'll probably be all grown-up and running wild.
HP, with all its characters and very little canon romance (thank you JKR, and please keep it that way) allows all kinds of pairings that actually fit in canon. Simplest example would be all the Hermione pairings – Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione, Draco/Hermione, Snape/Hermione, Remus/Hermione (too little), and Krum/Hermione (the oddest thing is – this is the only pairing confirmed in canon, and I've seen this in what? – two fics). And I haven't even touched upon the rarer pairings or femmeslash (OT – I have never, ever seen Lockhart/Hermione, and that is so canon *eg*). But even when the pairing isn't canon, and can no way ever be canon, there is always *some* interest about it. And talented authors can make the characters act IC even as they deviate from canon. Even some of the popular slash pairings can fall in this category *coughHarryDracocough* (okay, so I can't read Harry/Draco). LFN OTOH has pretty limited scope in this aspect, because canon has very specific pairings and centres around them – you can do pairings, but in most cases it would make the characters act OOC.
However, I'm always surprised at the lack of experimental fics of any form in LFN. We chatted about the lack of sex – but that's not the only thing here. I think I'll have to give an example again – Sirius/Remus is canon (yes, it is). There are many devoted S/R shippers who love the two characters and can't bear the thought of them paired with anyone else. But there are also people who don't particularly care for any one of them, and therefore pair them with other characters, and make it work. They do it by accepting Sirius/Remus in their plots. But it always surprises me that there is no LFN story (Mary Sues don't count) pairing Michael successfully with any other character, male or female. I mean, there are plenty of people who couldn't care less about Nikita and would happily see him paired forever with Elena. And canon does give some opportunities – even if they're small. I won't buy the small fandom argument, because back in the days the fandom may not have been as big as HP, but it wasn't too small either. (IMO, it's still not as small we think it is. It's just that there is a sudden dearth of good writers – almost all the authors I care about are here, in my flist *sigh*)
Again coming back to totally fantastic pairings. HP – and LOTR too – has abundance of pairings that are not canon and will never be canon. Except for those few strangely OOC Michael/Davenport fics, I haven't seen any such pairings in LFN. The general fannish reaction will always be "Ewww!" (except with Mary Sue, perhaps *snerk*)
nell65 talked about the incestfic that never happened (not that I'm disappointed really). In HP, it would happen. And it would work. I'm sure none of the above made any sense, so I'll just sum up echoing Curious: Why aren't there any different pairings in LFN (hang canon)? How come they never became popular? Why is our reaction so different?
And that said, Michael/Nikita is still my OTP. So there. *vbeg*
I did think of posting this on the FFMB for opinions, but there's no point in spamming the board with my vague ramblings. So, you all will have to read this instead.
~
Good thing: I just received news that my dear kitty (she lives at my grandfather's place in the small town where I come from) has given birth to four lovely kittens. They all seem quite healthy so far, and she is currently bringing down the house demanding food. Bad thing: I have no idea when I'll get to meet them, seeing that I can't visit too often. By the time I do, they'll probably be all grown-up and running wild.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Oh, same here, same here.
Date: 2004-04-17 03:18 pm (UTC)On the other hand, in the overwhelming majoring of MarySues - Niktia, where she simply hasn't inexplicably vanished - is writen off as a spoilded brat, a super bitch, or both - of if later on, as a cruelly manipulative witch who will do anything to get Michael into her bed.
I only know of one Marysue, AMW's first story, that treats Niktia with respect, and plausibly posits that Michael and Niktia *were* able to get together, but decided a la Elaine and Jerry Seinfeld, that they were better off friends and colleagues than lovers. The problem with that story was that the Mary Sue was so perfect, with such perfectly rough edges, and all her strengths were themselves implicit criticisms of Nikita - that AMW herself added an epilogue where the Mary Sue was revealed as a space alien who was trying to control Michael via mind-meld. LOL!
The problem with trying to create new pairings set in canon timelines, at least with Michael adn Nikita - whom I've obviously thought about a great deal, LOL - is that for pretty much all of canon their relationship, good, bad, happening or not, is intensely good or intensely bad or intensely happening or intensely not happening. Even when Niktia isn't talking to him, she is mostly very much "Not Talking To Michael" rather than simply letting him slip to the periphery of her life because she got busy with something else. And on the rare occassions that she was possibly slipping away out of sheer exhaustion, Michael made a major play to real her back in.
You have to break their connection to fit someone else in - and that is very hard to do. Not impossible - but really hard. And then question is, with who? There just aren't that many candidates in canon, especially given what we know happened.
For example, I could see Nikita/Mick - but only if Mick is *really Mick*. Nikita and Mick/Jones/Martin? No. For one thing, MJM wouldn't have the time. For another, Nikita wouldn't find the whole mislead-her-about-his-identity thing very attractive.
Nell
Firing away more questions...
Date: 2004-04-17 04:46 pm (UTC)That the keyword: 'canon timelines'. Why are we, as a fandom, so focused in canon when it comes to pairings, but when it comes to characterisation, canon can go to hell? Our use of AU is also very different. Why do you think the Nikita-haters never used AU to pair Michael with Elena/Simone/Madeline/Mary Sue? In HP I've read a few Lily/Remus AUs (did I just confess that? *g*), although Lily and James were very much in love in canon - they even got married, had a baby, and were living happily together until Voldie killed them.
Swatkat
Re: Firing away more questions...
Date: 2004-04-17 06:20 pm (UTC)Though least one writer I know of did pair Michael with Madeline in an AU (Betsy G and it looked great before silk angel forced her into hiding), and there may very well be more in some of the places I never looked - like the Alberta Watson board??
Elena - well, I think Elena is boring. And I don't see being with Elena making Michael particularly interesting, or revealing something interesting or new about him either. Though I have read a few stories about Elena *after* Michael's death where she does get interesting.....
In contrast, I think Remus and Lily would be interesting, just on their own, and then the way that would change the war would also be interesting. And I haven't even read the fifth HP book.
N
Heh
Date: 2004-04-17 07:24 pm (UTC)I quite like Elena - although she is boring compared to Nikita or Madeline or even Simone. Maybe it's her ordinariness that attracts me (the actress was annoying, though). But the question is again, you don't see her. Why wasn't anyone else even remotely interested in her? In HP, even the characters who make the briefest of appearances - like Angelina Jordan or Alicia Spinnet (the Gryffindor Quidditch girls) have someone to write about them. There are authors focused on writing about obscure, insignificant characters. I'm asking a lot of questions tonight. *g*
And I haven't even read the fifth HP book.
Anything I can say to convince you to read it? I'm good at convincing. *eg*
Swatkat
I'm waiting for the paperback - or to borrow one from a friend.
Date: 2004-04-18 12:53 am (UTC)quite like Elena - although she is boring compared to Nikita or Madeline or even Simone. Maybe it's her ordinariness that attracts me (the actress was annoying, though).
Oh, I like Elena well enough. I suspect that one big problem with Elena is that she *isn't* in Section. To write a story about Elena before we met her in canon is to basically write original fic about the daughter of a creepy terrorist/creepy whatever if you make it AU. There's no 'Section' there, or any overlap with the other characters besides Michael and Nikita - and then you're right back to the Michael and Nikita issue. Elena doesn't live with Section constraining her choices (or at least, not that she is aware of it). So - writing about her, again before we met her, doesn't bring us into the rest of the Section world.
In contrast even the minorist of wizarding characters *are* witches and wizzards and go to Hogwarts or teach at Hogwarts or had some role to play in the events we know about in the war with Voldemort...to write about them is also to write about the world JKR has created.
To write about canon Elena is to write about surburbia - not section. (though there is that excellent story about Elena's neighbor - to mention a completely obscure character who never even got a name, but has a good fic about her.....).
But the question is again, you don't see her. Why wasn't anyone else even remotely interested in her?
Well - to be fair, there *are* some good, or at least interesting, fics about Elena out there. Just because the bulk of the fanficdom hasn't been drawn to writing about her doesn't mean no one has.
I've imagined a lot of Michael backstory with Elena for several of my stories - but it is just that, backstory. Same with Michael/Peruze brothers, Michael/Terry, Nikita/Jurgen, Nikita/Gray, Michael/random fangirl....pairings I've alluded to or shown briefly, but haven't ever been the center of my attention.
N
The paperback's not out yet?
Date: 2004-04-18 05:39 am (UTC)Well - to be fair, there *are* some good, or at least interesting, fics about Elena out there. Just because the bulk of the fanficdom hasn't been drawn to writing about her doesn't mean no one has.
Hmm, actually I think I've seen some Elena stories too. But that makes her an exception, I guess, because none of the other characters ever got the amount of attention she got. And it's odd, because I agree with you when you say that she's not Section, which makes her sufficiently less interesting.
Swatkat