swatkat

Oh, dear. I take it you're finding people complaining about the most recent ep because there wasn't enough Kara/Lee in it? *Rolls eyes*

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I LOVED this week's episode - and I was thrilled they tossed a minor bone to the K/L brigade in a Laura-centric episode.

Shippers tire me, I guess. I love Lee/Kara in all its angsty you're-so-bad-for-me-it's-good but that doesn't mean I want BSG to turn into the Lee-and-Kara show (actually, I read an interview with Jamie Bamber last night and it looks like I have to be happy with the miniscule because L/K basically ended at 4x02). But then, I never had a lot in common with the Michael-and-Nikita brigade either.

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Yes, thank you, sane shipper friend. *clings*

And ooh, did you read about the potential Laura/Lee clashes that Bamber spoke of? Now *that's* something I'm looking forward to, Lee being *right* (is he the show's Leland Obama now?) and Laura being, well, Laura. Also the Dee plotline.

actually, I read an interview with Jamie Bamber last night and it looks like I have to be happy with the miniscule because L/K basically ended at 4x02

Kara will have to settle her accounts with her Cylon Boyfriends and her Special Destiny (tm) before she can think of a romance with Lee again, and Lee has his own journey to make.

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I was chatting with

athena4lynn last night and we both agreed that one reason this season is so interesting is what just happened in the last two episodes: Lee is becoming Laura (pragmatic politician), and Laura is becoming Lee (idealist). So, yes, I am *very* interested in seeing how that develops.

Also, YAY for Dee storyline! We've barely seen girlfriend this season. (Altho I suspect what her storyline may be, you and I discussed it a few weeks back...)

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Rewatching Lee's Pegasus arc made me realise how Laura-esque ruthless he can be. I think Lee is sometimes miscast as the hopeless optimist - that's not Lee, that's Bill. Lee is *way* more of a realist than his father. The reason I think he'll be a good successor for Laura is because he is learning to balance his realism (like Laura) with his optimism and compassion (which he inherits from his father). Lee also tends to do well when his father's actions thrust him to a certain direction (and I think that's one of the best and worst things about Bill as a leader, but I digress).

YAY Dee indeed! She has been so sidelined this season, I've started to second guess myself, but Bamber has given me hope. More Dee&Gaeta plzkthx!

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See, you're not a shipper, I don't think. You're a person who has a ship. There's a difference! The former views the source text entirely through the shipping lens, and the latter has the ability to change lenses now and then. If that makes sense!

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sk56.livejournal.com

Now that is an extremely important distinction, and clarifies all kinds of things for me! You're always such a smart girl!

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Yes. God. Complaining about how it is sad that the relationship that has been at the 'heart' of the show for three seasons is no longer in focus, complaining about why they haven't spoken in canon since 4.02, complaining about how there has been no 'build up' for the Adama/Roslin in the episode, complaining about there was nothing in the episode for those who aren't Roslin fans... For frak's sake, it's an ensemble show! And this is the final season! You're surprised that *Laura Roslin* is a more important player than Kara&Lee's romance? Even if we leave out Laura, we have Helo&Not!Sharon (also Boomer), pointing to some definite build up for a Eight-centric plot. We have D'Anna. We have Baltar and his confession, and how he has absolved himself of all crimes. We have the CYLONS FINALLY BECOMING MORTAL. There's nothing except Laura and Adama/Roslin? Seriously? *heddesk*

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::headdesk:: no build up for A/R???? The fuck? How about the entire series has been building to this?

Am I sad Lee/Kara has been shelved? Yes. Was it the heart of the show? HELL NO.

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How about the entire series has been building to this?

You know I tend to be somewhat shippy about them, but I was heartened by the fact that even non-shippers went 'about time'.

Sometimes I wonder if Ron Moore is a bit like JKR in the sense that there's only one romantic plotline he can handle at a time without messing it up. (Not that Adama/Roslin = Ron/Hermione. Hee.)

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::headdesk:: no build up for A/R???? The fuck? How about the entire series has been building to this?

Yeah, it blows my mind that anyone could say there was no buildup with a straight face.

As for Lee/Kara, it may not be the focus at the moment, but it's still an important part of who the characters are. And it always will be, IMO.

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We have the CYLONS FINALLY BECOMING MORTAL.

Yes! One of the biggest plot developments in, oh, just the history of the entire series!

And this *is* an ensemble show. All of the main characters occasionally get an episode that delves into their internal struggles -- Kara has had them, Lee has had them -- so of course Roslin will have them, too. But there's no reasoning with a certain species of very focused shipper.

This ep certainly hearkened back to your discussion about Cain, because Roslin really did hover on the brink of *becoming* Cain for a minute there: when confronted with the sudden realization that someone was a traitor, both Roslin and Cain reacted in exactly the same way. Now, Roslin did pull back in the end -- and I have to say that I'm not entirely happy with the means used, because the whole "love transforms people" (especially as applied to a female character) always sets off my eye-rolling reflex -- but it *was* at least interesting. But it's one thing for me to be dissatisfied with the ideological/philosophical arguments being made by TPTB, and quite another to be complaining that an ep doesn't give you enough fanservice, you know?

The Baltar/Roslin interactions were quite enjoyable, though -- alternately funny and kind of disturbing. I also loved the little touches: Baltar sowing trouble amongst the Centurions (he just can't stop himself, can he?), and D'Anna *caring* about Baltar's well-being, in contrast to her not trusting anyone else (even the Cylons who rebelled in her name). I know you don't necessarily like Baltar, but he's an important figure: a trickster, maybe, who upsets the given order even while appearing to be a joke.

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I have to say that I'm not entirely happy with the means used, because the whole "love transforms people" (especially as applied to a female character) always sets off my eye-rolling reflex -- but it *was* at least interesting. But it's one thing for me to be dissatisfied with the ideological/philosophical arguments being made by TPTB, and quite another to be complaining that an ep doesn't give you enough fanservice, you know?

I'm a sucker for that storyline, so as long as they don't transform Laura Roslin into a good little wife, I'm not complaining. Especially in this show, where 'love transforms people' has always been such a huge theme. Although, it has been a *Cylon* theme, mind you, not a human one, which means... Laura is still in the running? A lot of people have also spoken about head!Elosha - who is she? What are those visions that Laura keeps having? Legitimate questions, I guess, but since I'm not your archetypal sci-fi fan, it never occurs to me to ask these questions - I just go with the flow! *g*

This ep certainly hearkened back to your discussion about Cain, because Roslin really did hover on the brink of *becoming* Cain for a minute there: when confronted with the sudden realization that someone was a traitor, both Roslin and Cain reacted in exactly the same way.

Yes, yes she did! And I think it made sense that Baltar was the instrument here, because Baltar has lately been her blind spot, her downfall. When she ripped open the bandage, I yelled "don't do it!" at the screen, lol!

Would you believe that I actually enjoyed Baltar in a long, long time and did not want him to die? Shocking, I know. But Baltar is a scumbag, and now it feels as though his repeated survival is a metaphor for the survival of humanity itself. It would not be right if he died before Roslin and Adama.

I know you don't necessarily like Baltar, but he's an important figure: a trickster, maybe, who upsets the given order even while appearing to be a joke.

Trickster is the word I've been searching for! He is not the archetypal trickster, but there is something tricksterish about they way he causes disturbance in the force.

I also found Baltar's rambling regarding his guilt interesting. His theology is a very... "I am God's instrument" theology, which is such a turnaround for the man of reason from the mini and S1. (Also, if Baltar is Jesus Christ, what is Ron Moore saying about Christianity? Not that I want to touch that question with a ten-foot pole.)

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Also, if Baltar is Jesus Christ, what is Ron Moore saying about Christianity? I've been thinking about that - particularly when someone mentioned Baltar's wound as a 'stigmata'. Is Ron saying Jesus is/was a womanizing, self-deluded airbag? Or - perhaps more to the point - religion will create an image of it's Divine One that has little or nothing to do with the Reality.

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so as long as they don't transform Laura Roslin into a good little wife, I'm not complaining. Especially in this show, where 'love transforms people' has always been such a huge theme.

Oh, I know. It's just not a theme to my own taste. But I agree they're applying it to everyone here.

But Baltar is a scumbag, and now it feels as though his repeated survival is a metaphor for the survival of humanity itself. It would not be right if he died before Roslin and Adama.

That's a *really* interesting point! Baltar doesn't deserve to live, but then again none of the survivors really do. Every single one of them has been a "scumbag" at one point or another (well, escept maybe Helo, who's just too saintly to be believed): I mean, just look at Adama and Roslin, with their military coup and election fraud, respectively. The humans have always been portrayed as fighting each other in the pettiest possible ways, even as their survival was at stake. So...yeah. Baltar as the walking embodiment of why none -- and yet all -- of them deserve to live. I can buy that.

Trickster is the word I've been searching for! He is not the archetypal trickster, but there is something tricksterish about they way he causes disturbance in the force.

He's like a trickster who doesn't *know* he's a trickster. Not archetypal, but in some ways even more of a disruption.

I also found Baltar's rambling regarding his guilt interesting. His theology is a very... "I am God's instrument" theology, which is such a turnaround for the man of reason from the mini and S1.

Yes, he's evolved quite a bit. Which might be why his head!Six isn't showing up anymore. He doesn't need prodding now. Look at the way he talked to the Centurion, without any hesitation or fear, and compare that to how the head!Six literally had to *hold him up* when she was getting him to stand up to religious fanatics earlier in the season.

As for Jesus...I don't know. The whole redeemed sinner who founded the church (and was martyred) sounds a lot more like the Apostle Paul to me, but who knows what TPTB really have in mind.

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Baltar doesn't deserve to live, but then again none of the survivors really do. Every single one of them has been a "scumbag" at one point or another (well, escept maybe Helo, who's just too saintly to be believed): I mean, just look at Adama and Roslin, with their military coup and election fraud, respectively. The humans have always been portrayed as fighting each other in the pettiest possible ways, even as their survival was at stake. So...yeah. Baltar as the walking embodiment of why none -- and yet all -- of them deserve to live. I can buy that.

Yes, exactly. Remember what Athena said, in response to Adama's question? What makes humanity 'more qualified' for survival than the Cylons? Nothing, as far as she is concerned. And yet she has thrown her lot with the humans, because she loves them (Helo). That is why everyone keeps saving Baltar, I think - it's the ultimate *test*. If you can forgive Batltar, even for a moment, you qualify, despite your flaws.

He's like a trickster who doesn't *know* he's a trickster. Not archetypal, but in some ways even more of a disruption.

Which is why he is at one Marx and Jesus-in-the-making, lol!

Look at the way he talked to the Centurion, without any hesitation or fear, and compare that to how the head!Six literally had to *hold him up* when she was getting him to stand up to religious fanatics earlier in the season.

Hee. That was absolutely hilarious. And yes, that absolutely makes sense.

As for Jesus...I don't know. The whole redeemed sinner who founded the church (and was martyred) sounds a lot more like the Apostle Paul to me, but who knows what TPTB really have in mind.

But, but, what about One-Eye Tigh? Although, the only church he has founded so far is the Church of Adama, which doesn't have that many disciples. But he *is* one of the Five, which means he is a priest of Jupiter or something like that... (Can I take a moment to complain about 'Jupiter'? Would it have been too hard to call him 'Zeus'? If you're doing Greek, *stay* Greek, instead of mixing it up with Roman, and a dash of Hindu/Buddhist for the exotic.)

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But, but, what about One-Eye Tigh?

You know, I don't know what to make of Tigh yet. I don't think he's figured out his "path" yet -- but as a Cylon in charge of the human fleet (gulp), maybe he will find that day of reckoning coming soon.

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lyras.livejournal.com

I was oddly pleased that I accidentally took a photo of Nadal's behind in this post (http://lyras.livejournal.com/112201.html) :D.

No idea what was going on with Federer. He just seemed to be putting unbelievable amounts of pressure on himself instead of just...playing tennis.

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