So I went looking in the Wicked fandom

[swatkat]

As you predicted, jaybee65, Elphaba/Fiyero (which, by the way, is called Fiyeraba. i'm not sure if i hate it more than Gelphie) is indeed quite popular outside LJ. There are also a lot of people who think mixing the musicalverse with the bookverse is perfectly acceptable, which is annoying.

After a couple of musical fansites, I found the official discussion forums at gregorymaguire.com. Homophobia, random namecalling, grammar nazis, theirlovissotrueandpure... I think am in love. LOVE, I tell you.


Glinda and Elphaba - friendship, or something more?

Some highlights -

Miss Galinda: i didnt read SOAW
but YOU THINK THEY ARE LESBIANS!
no way....

you guys! don't be ridiculous!
they are not lesbians!
do you honestly think that galinda is a lesbian...or even elphie?

loveandhategalinda:

OH MY GOODNESS i was JUST THINKING THAT!!!
"but what I find interesting is Elphaba's emotional farewell to Glinda when she tells her she's staying in the Emerald City. That shows that she might return Glinda's feelings.
So, is Glinda gay? Did she love Elphie? Did Elphie love her back?" -Elphabareborn

i think it might be... something. It was a little too... uh... gushy. She kisses her and says hold out my sweet and kisses her again and then they are totally broken apart (which elphie doesn't show) and how weird!? wow that was blah blah blah sorry. but wow! i think it may be! i wish we could just... ask mr. maguire for all the answers to our questions. :'( but really i don't think they were gay... we might just be overanalyzing everything... like digging deeper and deeper for answers that might not be there. no offense. oh well i think the love was just like sisterly love... i don't know... sometimes i wonder if elphie is but then i remember she's had... umm you know... with fiyero... but then again didn't both Frex and Turtle Heart love Melena and love eachother?? i don't know i am going crazy too. it explain alot though... like resentment for eachother in the wizard of oz... :P

<33 loveandhategalinda

I Couldn't Be Happier:

I don't think there was sexual tension, at least not on Elphaba's side.
This is the main reason I don't want to read any more of Maguire's works. He leaves way to much up to interpretation and doesn't answer a quarter of the questions he proposes. Many people on the board think Elphie abd Glinda had a thing for each other, that Elphie was born with both sex organs, that Elphie wasn't a virgin, that Fiyero never really loved Elphaba. Ugh!!!!!
Way too much debate over things that should either have been directly stated, or so obvious that you obviously didn't read the book if you didn't get it.

I understand about leaving Fiyero's death to debate, or even the birth of Liir, I'll even say that there are reasons for Maguire to leave us wondering whether or not Fiyero was Elphaba's first love affair, but the rest seems to be either the inability to committ, or laziness.

I Couldn't Be Happier is my favourite poster in these forums. Why, you ask?

I stated my opinion, and while I think I know the answers to the points I brought up, many other members seem to think otherwise,that's why we see the same debates over and over again.
Call me old fashioned or an obtuse reader, I like it when I get the mystery solved at the end of the story and it's solved so all know the answer. There is obviously a lot of differing opinions out there, because many points of the story were not "clearly" spelled out.
I think the following:
Elphie and Glinda loved each other as friends.
Fiyero did love Elphaba.
No, she was not born with both sex organs.
Liir was Elphaba and Fiyero's son.
I do think she was a virgin before Fiyero, not because she was saving herself, or any other romantic reason. I think it was because she wasn't interested for a long while, and then she didn't have the opportunity until this guy came back into her life.
When she could have had sex at Shiz had she went to the Philosphy Club, she said there were more important things then sex. She was keen on seeing the Wizard. After Fiyero was killed she didn't have sex with anyone else again. Why was that?

4 pages of insanity in this thread. And the SoAW board is similarly filled with 'Ew, is Liir, like, gay or something?' (no, I haven't read SoAW yet. I just felt like spoiling myself *g*)

But wait! There's more!

But why is there so much sex in Wicked?; or Elphaba/Fiyero - theirloveissopureandtrue. Or is it?

the green girl:
lc12-
what elphaba is doing with fiyero is in no way pure. yes, he's the one cheating on his wife, but elphaba is not stopping him. she ignores the fact that he's married and has sex with him anyway. and if she truly loved him--i dont care who you are, this statement rings true--she would have been willing to give up everything for him, even her 'job.' because thats the way REAL love works. it's not deceitful or secretive or sneaky or only at certain specified times. it's overwhelming and ever-present... and it's not what fiyero and elphaba shared.

Lonecow12:
Sorry I didn't mean "true" sex, I meant untainted sex.
And anyway, if you read the writing style between the passages of the sex where there isn't love involved (i.e. all passages that aren't Elphaba and FIYERO (don't have to be a jerk about it, it was late and I was on my way to bed just typed fast give it a rest)) he describes the sex in a much more wicked way, then how he approaches the two young lovers it is given a softer and more real touch.

And obvously some people here have been spurned by a cheating spouse. Some hostility I detect.

And finally, What's with Elphie during the love scenes?; or Is Elphaba a hermaphrodite, or isn't she?

ElphabaofOz:

Elphaba's not a hermaphrodite. She has a child; she has female parts. She's green, but she's not a hermaphrodite.
I think Elphaba's not wanting Fiyero to touch her might be one of two things:

1.) she was sexually abused in the five years before we meet up with her and Fiyero.

2.) or, more likely, she's just extremely shy. When she puts oil on her skin, she turns her back to Fiyero, she won't let him see her naked in the light, she's extremely self-concious, and she's probably never had real, loving sex before.

Elphaba-Elphie-Fae:

Wouldn't Fiyero know whether she was male or female or both? Becuase in one of their last scenes together he does put his hands below her waist. And whats a hermaphordite?

I Couldn't Be Happier:

Her life was already so difficult. Why would Maguire add this to her burden too? How many trials can one herione take on?

This goes on. And on. And on. I love my new fandom!

Comments

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Oh. My. God.

I had heard rumors that the fandom was insane, but this is almost as good as HP! This could be *hugely* addictive. I don't even know where to start mocking this!

This, though, is my favorite quote:

This is the main reason I don't want to read any more of Maguire's works. He leaves way to much up to interpretation and doesn't answer a quarter of the questions he proposes.

*Headdesk*

*Headdesk*

*Headdesk*

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Oh. Forgot one thing. Fiyeraba???? Elphero would be easier to pronounce!

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I. HATE. ABBREVIATIONS.

Why is it always my ships? Fuffy. Spangel. Shoone. Gelphie. And now Fiyeraba. Why? Why???

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

You know, reading that list, don't they all sound like the kind of names you'd give pet dogs? Poodles and schnauzers and little yipping dogs, with bows around their necks.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Like the one Paris Hilton carries around.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Yes! Exactly! I can hear her now:

"Fuffy! Shoone! Gelphie! Give mommy a kiss!"

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Bwahaha! That's priceless!

[nell65.livejournal.com]

At least Michael and Nikita never got further than M/N.

Which, you know, is fine by me. Mikita? Nikel? Ick.

[sk56.livejournal.com]

Oooh, icky.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

I guess my options are Pauline (LOL!) or Maul (which is a Star Wars character, no?). Thank goodness for TR.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Hee. Darth Maul is evil, so that fits, doesn't it?

[sk56.livejournal.com]

I haven't even read the book (I know, I know) and still this comment just stuck out like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

I lead a reading group at my son's school, and there's one girl who has a great deal of difficulty with any kind of dramatic tension -- she doesn't want to believe that people would treat each other with intentional cruelty, that the world might be ambiguous (she was seriously wigged out at the end of Frank Stockton's "Lady and the Tiger" -- she was ready to dig Stockton up from the grave and "make him finish the story!") But this is 6th grade, and I can understand her desire for answers at this stage. Who are these twits that can't take a little ambiguity in fiction for grownups?!!!

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I haven't even read the book (I know, I know)

Read it? It's good. Both jaybee65 and I will vouch for it.

I lead a reading group at my son's school, and there's one girl who has a great deal of difficulty with any kind of dramatic tension -- she doesn't want to believe that people would treat each other with intentional cruelty, that the world might be ambiguous (she was seriously wigged out at the end of Frank Stockton's "Lady and the Tiger" -- she was ready to dig Stockton up from the grave and "make him finish the story!")

Oh dear. I hope she grows out of it. *g*

Actually, I *can* understand that feeling - sometimes. But this is just insane. The book is so brilliant *because* of its ambiguities, among other things.(BTW, I hate Lady and The Tiger. can't explain.)

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

I hated the Lady and the Tiger, too. Because it was about as subtle as a brick to the head. I can almost see the author dancing around gleefully chortling about how clever he is.

I like ambiguity. No, I *love* ambiguity. But I like it done with finesse.

[nell65.livejournal.com]

And now I'm trying to remember the Lady and the Tiger - but, you know, I think I liked it.... or at least, if I'm remembering the right story we had one beautifully illustrated copy that I was fond of. Because it was funny, to me anyway. *g*

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Never mind - I was remembering the wrong story. I don't think I've read this one.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

There you go: http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/LadyTige.shtml

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Ah. Yes. I think I had read it - but mercifully forgotten it. It was not the story I was thinking of.

[sk56.livejournal.com]

I havve the book, indeed I've had it for at least a couple of years, but there's always something else going on.

I had the kids read the Stockton because they were having trouble seeing the structure of the YA novels we were reading -- they were so busy gobbling up the plot and the characters that they couldn't see anything else (we read a first person book where our narrator was legally blind and yet kept talking about what he could "see" and no one seemed able to think about that...) So we read the Stockton, and some O'Henry shorts, where all you've got is the structure, and it helped a bit.

We're off now on Flowers for Algernon -- a bit bathetic, but readable.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I havve the book, indeed I've had it for at least a couple of years, but there's always something else going on

That's just wrong, lol! *pokes*

So we read the Stockton, and some O'Henry shorts, where all you've got is the structure, and it helped a bit.

That's a wonderful way to teach analytical reading. They're lucky to have someone like you to teach them.

Swatkat

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I had heard rumors that the fandom was insane, but this is almost as good as HP!

I love it!

This is the main reason I don't want to read any more of Maguire's works. He leaves way to much up to interpretation and doesn't answer a quarter of the questions he proposes.

*Headdesk*

ICBH is my *favourite* poster in the board so far. The obsession with *pure* love and virginal!Elphaba (if anyone was innocent, that would be Fiyero. Elphaba has never been innocent in her life), not to mention the above quote... it's something.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

The obsession with *pure* love and virginal!Elphaba

*Dies laughing*

Can you imagine what the Elphaba/Fiyero fic must be like? I bet it's hilarious. Do you think she swoons, like virginal!Nikita? Is there quivering, and angels? I *must* know.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Do you think she swoons, like virginal!Nikita? Is there quivering, and angels?

Don't forget the page-long descriptions of Fiyero's 'shaft'!

I'm sure you'll find some lovely ones in ff.net. *g*

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the page-long descriptions of Fiyero's 'shaft'!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Although, do you suppose he has the blue diamonds on it, too?)

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Although, do you suppose he has the blue diamonds on it, too?

*choke*

I wouldn't be surprised if he does.

Jokes apart, I actually find the hermaphrodite question very interesting. Is she? I didn't think about it.

Swatkat

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

It's entirely possible. It would fit in well with other themes, too: after all, she's literally the child of two worlds! Then again, the passages in question could also mean innumerable other things. That's the wonderful thing about this book: you can structure many different interpretations, depending on your mood.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

That's the wonderful thing about this book: you can structure many different interpretations, depending on your mood.

And yet you have people complaining on how vague it is. It's called AMBIGUITY!

[wicked-socks.livejournal.com]

That's impressive. I think I might have to start frequenting those boards!

What is it about some fandoms that they just inspire so much drama?

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

What is it about some fandoms that they just inspire so much drama?

I don't know! The LJ fandom appears to be quite sane, thank god! But I'm yet to find the good fic. *sigh*

[author-by-night.livejournal.com]

Me either. I found one that seemed really good... until Elphaba de-greenified herself. I'm sorry, that's just wrong.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

*sigh* jaybee65 has been doing a lot of work looking for Wicked fic - she has promised me some recs as soon as she has some time to sort through the crap. I'll pass them on when she does. *g*