Sleepy and incoherent

[swatkat]

Today's metafandom is full of discussions on March- whether or not it is fanfic, and why; whether it is somehow 'better' than what we understand as fanfic; what makes it 'better', if we assume it to be so, etc etc. My first instinct, of course, is to call March fanfic. And while I shouldn't comment on something I haven't actually read, I don't think it's even particularly interesting fanfic. Because in re-telling Mr. March's story, Brooke is telling us the story of an ordinary, sensitive man in times of war (who also happens to be Mr. March, the father of Jo March) – and how many times have we heard that story again? Little Women OTOH is about those left behind, about the *women* left behind, and that, to me, is a more interesting story than the same old Man vs. War story.

This is not to say I'm *against* re-telling stories. No, of course not. Would I be in fandom if I were? It's just that unless Brooke has managed to give us some new and interesting perspective on the old Man vs. War story, or on the Little Women universe (which I love dearly. someday I shall write a post on how this book changed my life. no, really – it did.) in her fic, I don't really care much about it.

*

And because I'm slightly (*cough*) obsessed with Wicked these days, I naturally started thinking whether you could call Wicked fanfiction. And I was quite astonished by my own answer to the question – I actually hesitated to call it fanfic, though it very clearly is a derivative work (a brilliant AU, if you like). Or 'just' fanfic. Which has a horribly derogatory ring to it, and that is so not what I meant to say. I think what I wanted to say is that fanfic – or to be more specific, shipfic, with its hyperfocus on romance and sex - often does not consider any other issue than romance (not that there's anything wrong with it), which maybe alright for the *fans* of that particular universe, but probably not so for everyone else. Does that at all make sense? *is hopelessly muddled*

P.S - GIP. Okay, so this is not a scene from the book. But Glinda sobbing over Elphaba's hat? There is no bad there. *sigh*

Comments

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

That's quite interesting (what you described in your anon comment). It does strongly suggest that this is a gender thing, which I have many misgivings about.

I like the idea of being in a female space in fandom, but I'd like to think that "female" space can include *more* than just what we're expected to write about. I don't know. I don't even know how to explain myself properly. *Sigh*

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Its hard stuff to talk about.

I'm not sure its *only* a gender thing - I think that 'echo chamber' effect is also playing a strong role - in one of these comments you mentioned feeling like you almost *had* to write shippy fic, to be read, to enter into the community. Given the kinds of meta I've seen around - you aren't the only one to find this a somewhat uncomfortable fit. Which suggests that there *are* plenty of women fic writers who do or want to write less ship-focused stuff, but can quite seem to locate the right venue for it.

Something I've seen even *more* of is a snarky dismissal of the classic romance genre, suggesting that a lot of the (mostly) women involved have been conditioned to be snotty about that type of fic altogether - or read one or two really bad ones and never looked back, feeling that this confirmed the low opinion of the genre - and now fanfic offers them a place to revel in romance fic, without having to go to the "pink" shelves in the bookstore, or read about people they don't care about.

So - despite romance being "out there" by the ton, they haven't really explored it - and of course, the m/m fen who don't like to read about women don't enjoy for that reason as well. So in a sense, ship fic, *is* supplying something the market didn't - romance fic about interesting characters in interesting situations. ???

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

Which suggests that there *are* plenty of women fic writers who do or want to write less ship-focused stuff, but can quite seem to locate the right venue for it.

I'm coming to the conclusion that there *is* no venue for it, and there never will be. There's just not enough interest among enough fen, and because genfic doesn't easily translate across fandoms the way shipfic does, there's never going to be a multifandom genfic community to provide encouragement, dialogue and mutual support the way there is with m/m or (now) f/f. Genfic writers are going to be much more isolated within their fandoms, and for that reason, I don't think the ship-oriented template of fandom is ever going to be broadened.

Which leaves me feeling very ambivalent about fandom and my future in it. "Reveling in romance fic," while fun in moderation, just isn't enough for me. I want to try other things, too, but I want the community of fandom to do it in, because writing and playing with a universe in isolation isn't a conversation, is it? And for me, the fannish conversation is at least half (if not more) of the appeal in the first place.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

Well, there was gen_fen, but I don't know how active that community is. I've never really seen the 'gen movement' take off the way the f/f thing has.

Which leaves me feeling very ambivalent about fandom and my future in it. "Reveling in romance fic," while fun in moderation, just isn't enough for me. I want to try other things, too, but I want the community of fandom to do it in, because writing and playing with a universe in isolation isn't a conversation, is it? And for me, the fannish conversation is at least half (if not more) of the appeal in the first place.

We're here with you! I will read your grocery list if you post it!

What other things do you want to try? I know the LFN fandom these days only has interest in Michael/Nikita happily ever after romances, but what about elsewhere? If you do other things instead of falling into the fandom template, a large section of fandom *will* ignore you - but think about it this way, do you really want to interact with them? Who is your target audience? Maybe you'll have to build up your own readership? Because I *have* come across authors who walk off the beaten path - some of them even manage to be quite famous.

while fun in moderation, just isn't enough for me

*coughProficough*

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

We're here with you! I will read your grocery list if you post it!

Aw, shucks. *Blushes*

What other things do you want to try? I know the LFN fandom these days only has interest in Michael/Nikita happily ever after romances, but what about elsewhere? If you do other things instead of falling into the fandom template, a large section of fandom *will* ignore you - but think about it this way, do you really want to interact with them? Who is your target audience? Maybe you'll have to build up your own readership? Because I *have* come across authors who walk off the beaten path - some of them even manage to be quite famous.

I'm trying to figure out my answers to these questions. I guess I should just go for whatever interests me, and worry about whether it fits in anywhere (or not) later.

The other part of it is, though, that it's not just about *writing*. I'd like to *read* a wider variety of stuff, too, but it's very labor-intensive finding good gen. Kind of like finding decent f/f used to be, because there just isn't a central source of recs. I *have* managed to find some very excellent gen BSG fic in the past few days -- and much of it is by authors who usually write shippy stuff -- so I'm afraid I'm just going to have to be very widely read in my chosen fandoms. LOL.

Maybe I should start listing my *own* recs, eh? If I'm going to do the work of finding them, I might as well share the fruits of my labor.

[swatkat24.livejournal.com]

I guess I should just go for whatever interests me, and worry about whether it fits in anywhere (or not) later.

Yes, you should. Ignore the idiots.

I'd like to *read* a wider variety of stuff, too, but it's very labor-intensive finding good gen.

Heh. I'm pretty much used to that. Look obsessively for recs pages, follow authors, search other people's memories, google... In fact, right now I'm in ff.net looking for Cuddyfic. Because I need Cuddyfic, and if LJ won't give me that I'll go to places that will. Even if it is ff.net.

Kind of like finding decent f/f used to be, because there just isn't a central source of recs.

Thank god for femslash_today. *g*

Maybe I should start listing my *own* recs, eh? If I'm going to do the work of finding them, I might as well share the fruits of my labor.


Yes, please! I'm actually thinking of getting another LJ where I can list fics I've enjoyed - for myself and for anyone else who might care to read. I tried del.icio.us for a while, but I keep forgetting to use it to bookmark things.

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

I added del.icio.us buttons to my Firefox toolbar, and that's been really handy because now it doesn't take any effort at all to bookmark things. When I come across fics but don't have time to read them, I can just tag them as "unread" and come back later to see what's in my "unread" list. If they're decent, then I edit the tags and keep it on del.icio.us, and if not, I just delete it.

But reccing things for others on LJ might be a good idea. For both of us to do!

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Genfic writers are going to be much more isolated within their fandoms, and for that reason, I don't think the ship-oriented template of fandom is ever going to be broadened.

This is where I'd love to know more about the SW or ST fandoms, or anime - b/c from the bits and pieces I've picked up, they aren't as shippy - *in thier non-lj incarnations.* Age of Sail fandom also appears to get a lot of non-shippy adventure fic.... but the handful of net archives I've looked at were all members only, which I assume is easy to become - but I don't know. I hate to join an archive *before* I know how good the fic is! *g*

So, there is someting to the notion that gen fic doesn't cross outside its fandom base well. If its truly invested in the universe - then, you have to like the universe well enough to get into the fic.

I want to try other things, too, but I want the community of fandom to do it in, because writing and playing with a universe in isolation isn't a conversation, is it? And for me, the fannish conversation is at least half (if not more) of the appeal in the first place.

For me, one of the biggest challenges with writing non-shippy fic is that I find coming up with some plot other than girl meets boy and problems ensue - hard to come up with. The girl meets boy plot is done so often, and in so many ways, it's easy to adapt.

I have ideas for other kinds of fic, that do wrestle with all of the "other" things out there - but I find they take a *lot* more time to write. Maybe if I weren't stil so blocked when it comes to Section itself I could write more, shorter, non-shippy stuff set in teh canon world - but I'm still finding the gaps and inconsistencies too frustrating as environments to hold some other plot. *sigh indeed*

[jaybee65.livejournal.com]

I hate to join an archive *before* I know how good the fic is! *g*

I know what you mean! Even though it's easy enough not to visit again if you find you don't like what's there, you feel you're still somehow a "member." LOL.

So, there is someting to the notion that gen fic doesn't cross outside its fandom base well. If its truly invested in the universe - then, you have to like the universe well enough to get into the fic.

That does seem to be the case. And yet a love for certain *types* of media/genres might be enough to create a multifandom community: Age of Sail is a good example; anime another; perhaps spaceship sci-fi, spy shows, CSI-type shows, etc., could be other sources of common ground for fen to gather.

It's interesting, though, that you found these things *outside* LJ, because LJ actually provides the best kind of forum for making multifannish connections. I wonder why it hasn't been used? Is it because slashers *found* LJ first, and so it sort of became associated with them?

For me, one of the biggest challenges with writing non-shippy fic is that I find coming up with some plot other than girl meets boy and problems ensue - hard to come up with.

Well, it's the old classic "what if" question. You think of something -- an event, a person, a thing, a concept -- and ask yourself what would happen if you introduced it to the setting of your fandom. Just as an example off the top of my head: take "claustrophobia" as the thing you want to introduce to the LFN universe. What if someone was claustrophobic? Say, Walter (just to pick someone less common)? What could you do to set up events to put him in a situation where that would become relevant, and where perhaps Nikita would have to cope with him? And you go from there. You don't have to resolve all the canon inconsistencies in this kind of story, and it can be quite limited in scope.

Or you take a canon character and ask yourself -- how did that person get to be where he or she is? Or, what was his/her perspective on such-and-such event? That can give you loads of backstory ideas, or episodic stories about supporting characters, etc.

My problem, I think, is that *most* of my ideas fall into these kinds of categories, but there isn't much of a venue for them, so I don't know what to do with them.

[nell65.livejournal.com]

Those are good ideas - and part of what the drabbles are all about. Sadly, I haven't had the time or inclination to run with much this year as, well, its been pretty freaking consuming professionally speaking.

They aren't instinctive ideas for me though.... When day dreaming plot bunnies, I mostly start with Nikita and work out into something else. I'm such a hopeless OTC gal. *g*